Borrow an Engineer
Borrow an Engineer
(OP)
Here's a new service to match engineering students with companies who need engineering work. You can hire an un-licensed engineering student much cheaper than a licensed one.
News Story
Borrow An Engineer
Any thoughts?
News Story
Borrow An Engineer
Any thoughts?





RE: Borrow an Engineer
RE: Borrow an Engineer
Ah, so they weren't actually looking for an engineer. My aunt, a commercial artist, used to do these sorts of things.
Sadly since a non .edu email account won't work there is no way we can see the thousands of lucrative, scoped, well thought out projects available.
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Borrow an Engineer
Since I am more interested in forming instant opinions than reading, is that first, second or third world college students taking jobs from first, second or third world engineers?
RE: Borrow an Engineer
Professional and Structural Engineer (ME, NH)
American Concrete Industries
www.americanconcrete.com
RE: Borrow an Engineer
As if there wasn't enough of that bulls&&t going around. "Oh, we'll give you credit and you'll get the notoriety of having worked on this project! That should be plenty of compensation!"
RE: Borrow an Engineer
Professional and Structural Engineer (ME, NH)
American Concrete Industries
www.americanconcrete.com
RE: Borrow an Engineer
It's inevitable that at least some students will significantly underbid the work. Leading to either JNieman's indentured labor or TME's lawsuits.
I don't see this ending well. Except for the founder, he got some nice press, probably helped in his MBA application, and he'll have a "cool" basis for his projects during the MBA program (instead of the endlessly rehashed case studies of Apple and Facebook).
I am curious how they'll enforce the hiring finder fee. I presume they'll have some sort of legal contract (bid out to a law student?), but especially with most companies requiring an application through their internal resume sorting service, I don't see that sticking.
RE: Borrow an Engineer
Edit-to-add
Forgive my negativity, I just don't see either party in this relationship coming out ahead. The cheapskate clients are going to get a crappy result that they didn't foresee. The students are going to get taken for a ride because they don't know what they are getting into. The few situations that come out completely successful will be parroted as the status quo by the website owners in their future "case study" examples and fool more and more students and prospective clients into this charade.
I've seen a lot of "I'll get a college kid to do it" projects in my time and they were always a crash-and-burn.
RE: Borrow an Engineer
Professional and Structural Engineer (ME, NH)
American Concrete Industries
www.americanconcrete.com
RE: Borrow an Engineer
RE: Borrow an Engineer
Regards,
Mike
The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand
RE: Borrow an Engineer
Does it go without saying that company is mostly overseas😎.
RE: Borrow an Engineer
Welcome to a free market. If you don't like it and want to live in a society where that does not exist, you can move to any number of countries with a centrally planned economy. I'm sure you would love it there. They ban every sort of innovation immediately. If fire was discovered there, it would be illegal.
RE: Borrow an Engineer
You should visit the US. Did you know prostitution is illegal in this county, and even child labor? So much for the "free market". Which one of the centrally planned markets are you from?
RE: Borrow an Engineer
RE: Borrow an Engineer
Governments have the right, and indeed the responsibility, to regulate and tax in the public interest.
In a totally free market, anyone who thought they were an engineer could design anything that customers would buy, for any fees. The insurance industry would be there to compensate the victims, assuming governments required people to carry insurance. If not, people would just die and others would go bankrupt and move on. Who would be there to protect innocent bystanders from being injured in the first place? Most societies long ago moved beyond merely offering people "blood money" for permanent injury- they want some reasonable assurance of injury protection in the first place.
If you concede licensure and regulation, i.e. codes and standards, engineering licenses etc., then all you're saying is that anyone is free to enter the workforce, apply for a license when required, and work for whatever money- or none- that they feel is fair compensation. Aside from minimum wage laws, we're pretty much already there.
The reality in a modern society is a little more complex. Right now we're beavering away at solving the perceived problems of the 1950s in the labour market. Whereas once it was a great achievement to just get a university degree- especially one in a regulated profession- now it's not at all rare. Educational attainment in Canada as an example is so high now that the bachelor's degree has taken the place of a high school education as a minimum required education for employment. We're cranking out so many engineers in Canada that only 30% of engineering graduates here work as engineers or engineering managers. When you consider that education here is still substantially publicly funded. With so many fresh grads unable to gain entry to their chosen profession, it's natural that many will reach around- for a while- for innovative ways to gain experience without requiring compensation for it. Does "free" represent fair value for the services rendered by these interns? In our view, the answer is definitely NO. We pay our interns, always have, and always will, because we find it unethical to de-value the services of our future generation. Our interns' pay is a fraction of an engineers' starting salary, which increases with experience, and that's fair value. And yes, we make money from their services- but even more important than that to us as a business, the pool of past co-op students is our natural recruitment channel. This greatly diminishes the importance of the (near useless) interview process, which is basically the equivalent to a phone call plus two dates and hour or two long prior to marriage- not a reliable strategy!
RE: Borrow an Engineer
RE: Borrow an Engineer
Are you guys under the impression that this will be used as a replacement for a PE? If so, I don't think we can discuss the actual implications of this mechanism any further. You are starting to sound like the cab driver's union that stopped a highway and threw burning tires at cars because the government in France allowed Uber to exist.
"Formal education is a weapon, whose effect depends on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed." ~ Joseph Stalin
RE: Borrow an Engineer
I think you need to clarify which government and what type of circuit, then, because that's absolutely false in many cases.
I am not. Though the term "borrow an engineer" is advertising engineering services, imo, which I think the boards in the States of the USA will take umbrage with, if there are unlicensed members.
RE: Borrow an Engineer
if you have a simple job, that's well defined, then you can probably get it done on the cheap, since not much engineering is involved; and why not ... I think we all hate the mundane trivia that comes with the job.
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Borrow an Engineer
RE: Borrow an Engineer
I can see this being useful for a Sole-Proprietorship needing a one-off item. Or perhaps someone looking to get on Shark-Tank or All-American Makers looking for investment money and needing a prototype or mock-up. But then this appears to be the site's target audience.
I also think the name of the site/company is deceptive and does not properly reflect their 'contractors'. On several occasions their literature mentions apps and websites; I'm sorry if you write software for an app or website you are not an engineer in my book, you are a "developer."
Do I see this having a major impact on the engineering community? No.
If a company is going to be mass producing a product, they are going to need a full time engineer with experience; something BorrowanEngineer does not provide.
RE: Borrow an Engineer
Lawyer: "So you're saying that for engineering expertise for this product, this product that spontaneously exploded and gave my client third degree burns on 15% of her body, you purposely began your product engineering with an unqualified student you found on the internet?"
Owner: "uhhh....it was cheap?"
Lawyer: "Well, I'll let you keep the pen you use to sign everything you own away to me and my client. Quite the bargain!"
RE: Borrow an Engineer
Engineers should not offer their services for free to for-profit enterprises, whether they're offering those services for free as a student in a free internship or as substantial uncompensated overtime. Engineering services are of value, and offering them for free to those who would profit from their use, de-values those services. Compensation can vary in nature and quantity, but when it's ZERO, we're all in trouble. At least these "borrow an engineer" kids are attempting to obtain some compensation for their work- and you can't fault them for being creative in the way they're going about it.
I feel the greatest sympathy for the LARGE FRACTION of engineering grads who currently cannot get a foot in the door in their chosen profession. I'd fix that problem if I could- by reducing the number of engineering grads entering the labour market to more closely match the labour market demand for their services. Given that we subsidize tuition substantially here in Canada, that is the most sensible course of action for our society as a whole- cranking out three times as many engineers as the labour market could possibly use is an idiotic strategy. But I won't collude in making their situation worse for my own profit by accepting their services for free, whether formally as interns or informally through a cut-rate "borrow an engineer" gig economy service model. That stand of valuing the services of other engineers is consistent with the professional engineering code of ethics I affirmed when I accepted my license.
RE: Borrow an Engineer
"Formal education is a weapon, whose effect depends on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed." ~ Joseph Stalin
RE: Borrow an Engineer
Are you guys unionized or something? GEEZE!! If they produce results for somebody and do not negatively affect anybody against their will while doing it, then just kick back and focus on doing something productive.
"Formal education is a weapon, whose effect depends on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed." ~ Joseph Stalin
RE: Borrow an Engineer
RE: Borrow an Engineer
RE: Borrow an Engineer
I'm not sure how this falls on the scale.
Right now, those interested in real engineering would never consider such a notion but who knows in the future.
I strongly encourage a price min.
... in some industries there is a bit of a risk to letting the minions do work for nothing... in others not.. be careful very careful what you wish for..
RE: Borrow an Engineer
"Formal education is a weapon, whose effect depends on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed." ~ Joseph Stalin
RE: Borrow an Engineer
I value my services and can, and have, competed successfully, on several continents. I can surmise why some people prefer lowest common denominator. Good luck with your regulated market for spawning.
RE: Borrow an Engineer
I get paid for my engineering by selling solutions rather than man-hours. It earns me a good living, thanks. Our company competes internationally and wins business from all over the world- including China and India. Selling solutions rather than hours allows my company to pay my interns a fair wage, too.
RE: Borrow an Engineer
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Borrow an Engineer
RE: Borrow an Engineer
How many screwed-up jobs did it take to close shop?
Good riddance.
Proud Member of the Reality-Based Community..
To the Toolmaker, your nice little cartoon drawing of your glass looks cool, but your solid model sucks. Do you want me to fix it, or are you going to take all week to get it back to me so I can get some work done?