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deluge activation in nfpa 11
3

deluge activation in nfpa 11

deluge activation in nfpa 11

(OP)
I was wondering if it is possible to use deluge valves when I design low-expansion foam fighting system (e.g. foam chamber). I am asking that because the standard for this type of systems is NFPA 11 and it does not include Deluge foam-water spray systems. I did not read in NFPA 11 about deluge activation.

RE: deluge activation in nfpa 11

What are you protecting?

Most of these systems I have designed are FDC supply only, with big pipe. The responding department brings their own toys ,foam included, to the party. I think the criterion listed in 11 may supersede the use of a Deluge valve type system. But I will defer on this to those with greater experience.

R/
Matt

RE: deluge activation in nfpa 11

(OP)
It is a diesel tank that was to be protected with a low expansion foam fighting system. I would like to use the foam chamber with a deluge activation but I would like to be sure if this disagree with the nfpa 11

RE: deluge activation in nfpa 11

A quick look thru 11, I found Deluge under Compressed Air systems. So it would appear that a type is allowed. The annex briefly touches on their use for fuel and such.

However; 1.3 states Deluge are not covered by 11. It sends you to 16.

R/
Matt

RE: deluge activation in nfpa 11

(OP)
Thank you matt. It doesn't seems to be so clear,I made the question also because I have already seen foam chamber or foam maker with the deluge application, and because the nfpa does not exclude specifically the deluge application

RE: deluge activation in nfpa 11

amantino77,

You could refer to NFPA 16 (2015 Edition) which states that Deluge system could be used with foam. Chapter 4 clause 4.2 states that " Foam-water systems shall be of the wet pipe, dry pipe, deluge, or preaction type."

BTW, deluge-foam system is a great option to protect rooms containing liquid fuels as it forms a blanket on the fuel surface which prevents fire re-ignition.

RE: deluge activation in nfpa 11

(OP)
FPE22,
so does the NFPA 16 chapter 4 clause 4.2 refer also to NFPA 11 systems low-medium high expansion? This make sense, but I really do not understand why NFPA 11 in clause 1.3 states that Deluge systems are not covered by 11, this is a contradiction isn't it?

RE: deluge activation in nfpa 11

NFPA 11 covers the design, installation, maintenance, etc.. of the low, medium, and high expansion foam systems. The foam system includes the foam concentrate, storage tanks, water supply, air compressor, etc.. On the other hand, NFPA 16 covers the water systems such as deluge and pre-action which are used with the foam system. Therefore, as stated in NFPA 11 clause 1.3, it is not the intent of this code to cover the water spray systems (NFPA 16 covers them).

Since the foam you are using is low-expansion foam, you should refer to NFPA 16 to know the requirements of the water spray system you intend to use. Also NFPA 11 chapter 5 covers the requirements of the low-expansion foam system.

Hope this makes it more clear.

RE: deluge activation in nfpa 11

It seems as though you are looking to provide protection using a scheme that may not be the intent.
The Foam Makers in question do a great job of covering an area, say a pool or tank with a floating roof.
However, low expansion foam can be used in conjunction with a Deluge system, which is a different protection intent. Specifically the use of nozzles at required positions and angles around the cylinder in question. The diesel fuel you reference burns a little more easy than say crude.

So maybe the two systems are approved with the foam, but the applications are not compatible.


R/
Matt

RE: deluge activation in nfpa 11

(OP)
An other question worth asking could be which kind of activation, in low expansion foam system, is possible to use if I do not use a deluge valve?ponder

RE: deluge activation in nfpa 11

Ama77

Same question to you

How were you going to trip the deluge valve??

Manually or other

RE: deluge activation in nfpa 11

(OP)
With an automatic heat detection

RE: deluge activation in nfpa 11

What are the dimensions on the tank?

What specific heat detection were you proposing?

RE: deluge activation in nfpa 11

(OP)
Does this effect the activation choose?

RE: deluge activation in nfpa 11

Should

RE: deluge activation in nfpa 11

(OP)
But I was just asking if it is possible to use deluge valves when I design low-expansion foam fighting system and if this agree or not with the nfpa 11. I would like just to know if there are any limitation of the use of deluge valve in low/medium expansion foam systems...

RE: deluge activation in nfpa 11

Hello,
Good day!

With reference to:
But I was just asking if it is possible to use deluge valves when I design low-expansion foam fighting system and if this agree or not with the nfpa 11. I would like just to know if there are any limitation of the use of deluge valve in low/medium expansion foam systems...

In my understanding, yes! you could use a deluge valve. It is not directly mention that you should use a deluge valve, but the requirement set forth by NFPA 11 can be satisfy by it.

Per NFPA 4.9 (see below)


Hope this helps,
PAtrick


RE: deluge activation in nfpa 11

(OP)
Thanks a lot Patrick,
You confirmed my thought!

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