×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Jobs

Should I just give up?
15

Should I just give up?

Should I just give up?

(OP)
I have had zero luck getting a job actually doing engineering. I had a technology degree and got stuck in a job doing nothing but drafting for five years. I got disgusted and quit. Returned to school to a BSME. Graduated from Penn state with a 3.1 GPA 3.3 in major GPA. Tried to get a job at medium to large sized company and either never got an interview or had an interview and got rejected. I'm now stuck at another job doing drafting. Day in, day out. Just cad and other menial tasks that I could have done in 5th grade. I'll be 33 this month. I am wondering if I should just give up and try another career. I was wondering if anyone has ever been in a situation like this. Will I get to the point where I'll get to do something else or is this experience a dead end? Some people have said if you're in my position at 30 you're stuck in a cubicle doing cad you should just get out of engineering, others say you won't get to do actual engineering until you have many years experience. I really feel like I could do great things but noone will give me a chance. Just feel lost and have no direction or career path. Any advice would be helpful.

RE: Should I just give up?

4
I knew a gifted mechanical designer who had spent eight years drawing brackets for fuel lines on one side of aero engines. He had never seen an actual engine, or seen drawings of the other side of the one he had been working on.

I think he was ready to blow his brains out before he came to work for me, in a tiny company making medical devices with lots of electronics, miles of plumbing, and complicated mechanisms. He got a very intense OJT course in designing with plastics, and he got to work on a lot of cool stuff, because we couldn't afford a specialist just for brackets, or for anything else.

The key is 'tiny company'.

That tiny company, sadly, is gone now, subsumed by a rapacious multinational with no soul, which of course didn't need him, or me.

Have faith.
New tiny companies appear every day.
A genius is a person who is willing to fail just one more time...

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: Should I just give up?

I agree small company is a more likely to let you start engineering in addition to CAD. You don't mention whether you are prepared to relocate, I have had to relocate for EVERY SINGLE CHANGE OF JOB.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Should I just give up?

Agree with Mike.

Other key words beside "small company" are "privately owned" which is not always the case.

In a perfect world - owners who still remember how things are actually done.

Place being run by accountants with the sole purpose of pleasing shareholders quickly becomes soulless meat-grinder.

"For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert"
Arthur C. Clarke Profiles of the future

RE: Should I just give up?

How flexible are you in your searches? Family restrictions? Willing to move? Anywhere?

Just reading between the lines here, when I read your post I was picturing one or two people I have worked with in the past. Honestly they were their own worst enemy. I'm not saying this applies to you but I will say that people for whom this is the case rarely ever know it themselves. You obviously have a reason to be upset, but really, how big is that chip on your shoulder? Is it coming across to the people that interview you? I could be wrong. I'm just sharing my honest first impression.

One other point, at one point in my career (pre-internet) I was trying to change jobs and mailed out over 150 resumes. Got TWO interviews.

And for what its worth, about small companies. The BEST job I ever had was for a small company. The WORST (and shortest) job I ever had was for a small company. They have their advantages (you wear a lot of hats), but they also have disadvantages (quirky owners and poor funding). Be very careful, and always remain flexible.

RE: Should I just give up?

Couple of thoughts-

-try expanding your current role; try becoming more involved in the design process versus doing the detailing.
-keep looking for another position with a different company. You may want to go at it a little differently than scouring the job boards. If you don't want to move, pick a commute radius around your house you would be comfortable with and do a search of manufacturing companies in that radius and target those that interest you
-I know engineers tend to be 'the fixers' but you sound like you may be depressed - talk to a mental health professional about how to best handle this - not necessarily meds but having an outlet to talk to and some good coping skills can go a long way

RE: Should I just give up?

If you can be a problem solver, you might be able to make yourself "indispensable."

I got hired (at one of those souless big companies before the corporate office fully encased the acquisition) for one job that I wasn't all that wild about, but very soon discovered a huge need that 'they' didn't even realize existed. Started doing stuff to fill that void. 'They' liked what I was doing and I never did anything else for the 10 years I was there but what I enjoyed doing; solving problems.

Skip,

glassesJust traded in my OLD subtlety...
for a NUance!tongue

RE: Should I just give up?

Years ago, I lived in the same neighborhood as a very famous man. We never met personally. We ran in different circles. He was famous for several things, but one for which he is best remembered was his outlook and philosophy on life. He would say, "Don't give up. Don't ever give up." He was Jim Valvano.

Good luck,
Latexman

Technically, the glass is always full - 1/2 air and 1/2 water.

RE: Should I just give up?

2
When I graduated in 1983, I had nothing. I begged the government for employment insurance benefits on the basis I of having worked every available day between semesters, and gave them the documentation to prove it. They accepted the argument, and that income funded what became a 56 week long job search. For a while, I was a labourer who made tents. 1200 applications - yes, 1200 applications - later, I got two interviews and one offer. The only reason I got the offer was because it came to me under the conditions of a government-sponsored employment internship program whereby the government paid 75% of my salary. Accordingly, the net cost to my employer was $3.00 CDN per hour. In the first of two years I was there, my job was to put numbers into circles on schematics that I didn't understand and list what numbers had been assigned where. It turns out, that was my introduction to P&ID instrument lists. Then, they made me read catalogs and prepare requisitions for the thingies represented by those numbered bubbles. I did all kinds of goofy things like recommending gas actuated thermometers where bimetallic were clearly intended, but they smiled, politely helped me correct mistakes, and let me work through it. Then, when everything was bought, they sent me to various shops and field locations to check off that the right thingies got delivered to the right places. By the time that year was over, I had physically seen and touched just about every on line instrument device that went into a heavy oil battery.

After that assignment, they sent me to a field location for 7 months to be a site inspector for canal embankment construction. Most of what I did was compaction testing on the various clay fills that were used, but I also shovelled random samples of armour and rip-rap into sampling buckets to ensure those materials were installed to specification as well. I lived in a rented single-wide trailer in a town of 1500 people through the dead of winter and drove about 200-300 km per day with shovels, buckets, spikes, sledgehammers and a nuclear densometer bouncing around in the back of a stripped out cube van. By the time I finished that assignment, I could pick up a lump of clay in my hand and, with uncanny accuracy, estimate the proctor, moisture content, density and whether it could be classified as Zone 1 or Zone 2 fill based on my assessment of its probability to be worked to 95% compaction.

So for two years, I put numbers in circles and played with dirt. Not exactly what I figured "mechanical engineering" was all about, but I hung in there. Indeed, I had unbelievably good mentors who were willing to drop everything to teach me stuff as long as I was willing to work hard. I understand it's harder to find that kind of mentor ship or employer commitment in these times, but I am inclined to suggest just hanging in there and looking for a mentor or two.

Interestingly enough, about 7 years later, I worked in a place where there was a guy who was hired for the sole purpose of being a document control clerk. This guy just basically assigned numbers to drawings, listed them, and tracked them, and he was good at it, very tenacious. But, for about 5 minutes every day, he would ask me, "Just curious, what's this?" and point to some detail or other on a drawing. He would take the explanation, file it away in his mind, and go about his business. In about a year, he could review those drawings for errors about as well as the responsible engineers, and I don't think it was much longer after that before he morphed his career into becoming an instrumentation technologist - which is what his schooling had intended for him to become.

So...I'd hang in there. It sucks now but it won't forever.

RE: Should I just give up?

I do a lot of drafting, mostly my own, occasionally for others.

I've also ran several $1000,000 worth of 'special' orders last year & this being the lead on them for one of our major product lines.

I started here as essentially a drafter, but within months folks were looking to move me into engineering based on the work I was doing etc.

Not sure if that helps, or makes you feel worse, but there you have it.

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: Should I just give up?

I've read your post a few times and I can't tell what you want to do.

Do you know what it is that you want to do?

If no: Figure that out. Now.

If yes: You need to be more targeted than "Tried to get a job at medium to large sized company".

RE: Should I just give up?

Persistence, and often dogged persistence, is sometimes needed to achieve one's goals. How many resumes did you send out? I've seen people here that have sent out hundreds of resumes, looking for a job, and would send out hundreds more if that's what it took. Has anyone reviewed your resume or your cover letters? I've seen people that have awful resumes or cover letters, and often, their attitudes come through, even in the sparsity of a resume. How do your resume and cover letter demonstrate that you are the solution to that particular company's problems. Your resume and cover letter should say much more that "pick me, pick me;" they need to say "pick me because I'm the right choice for you because of A, B, C, etc." A resume and cover letter are marketing documents; they market you. Mythbusters proved that you can polish a turd, so if that's what's required, then you need to do so.

You seem to be more bored at your current job, rather than having a deep passion to do "engineering." What have you done on your own time? What can you point to as evidence of you're being "TheMechanicaGenius" that you seem to think you are?

TTFN
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers


Of course I can. I can do anything. I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
There is a homework forum hosted by engineering.com: http://www.engineering.com/AskForum/aff/32.aspx

RE: Should I just give up?

Just to add to the numbers/persistence meme, for my first job I contacted every single company in the fields I was interested in, in the country, and handwrote a letter to them, and filled in every application form I had back, and went to the resulting interviews. So that was about 100 letters, 20 application forms, 6 interviews, and 2 firm offers. At the time I was studying for my final year at school, so I had essentially zero spare time except at weekends.

So, frankly, genii need to bear in mind that it is 99% hard work, 1% inspiration. Self proclaimed ones even more.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Should I just give up?

2
I realize you are frustrated but there are several things you can you to help yourself:

Based on the Penn State reference, I assume you are US-based. If you haven't already done so, take the first part of the PE exam. Your experience won't (yet) qualify for full licensure, but get the first part out of the way. Make sure your current management knows when this has been successfully completed.

Joint the ASME, or another professional group, and actually attend the local chapter meetings; speak with others in your area and find out what they are doing. Maybe the market in your local area is part of the problem.

You may want to get some feedback on your resume (and cover letters) to ensure they are highlighting your strengths and position you in the best possible light.

Lastly, you may need to recalibrate your thinking. Operate from the mental position that you are a degreed engineer (and hopefully an EIT in the near future) and that the situation will improve. The fact is, as others have stated, drafting-related work is a fairly big part of the design process. It's not untrue to say that you are currently a designer, seeking a design engineering position. You might want to market yourself in that way.

Don't give up - unless you really don't want to be in the field. We have all done our share of grunt work; it goes with the territory. If the job itself isn't yet providing what you want from the engineering field, focus on improving your position and assume the next one will. Good luck.

RE: Should I just give up?

2
Hang in there, dude.
At the very least, you are getting paid pretty well to be bored. I just graduated with a BSME at the fresh young age of 39. I came off the factory floor because I realized that my body wouldn't hold out forever (at the quality of life I desired). I have days that I really miss the pace of the floor, but my fall-back is always "Hey, you're bored today, but your'e being paid well to be bored."

Based on my own personal experience, I can tell you that I look at my job as a means to pay for the things I am passionate about. Pursue the things you love in your free time, grind at work. I don't expect my work experience to be more than tolerable, and certainly I don't expect to be fulfilled by my work. Part of that is because there is no one that is going to pay me to do the things I love to do (will someone please hire me to be a professional fisherman/crocheter/hobby farmer/carpenter/gamer/hunter?), and part of that is because I focus primarily on my family as the center of my life. YMMV, but that mindset has gotten me through some stressful and some mind-numbingly boring days.

Even if all you want to do is engineering, you can pursue your interests in your free time. Maybe no one will pay you for it now, but you'll be happier for it. And it may come in handy down the line. You never know.

RE: Should I just give up?

Obviously, that's sort of the Holy Grail, to be passionate about something, and to be paid very well for it. Even some gamers have found a way to make a living playing games. While there's likely lots of situations where you suffer the vicissitudes of some types of work to pay for your pursuits, that isn't necessarily a good thing. There's bound to be higher stress, and if you hate your job, you're probably not going to be particularly motivated to do well at it, which further degrades the job situation.

TTFN
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers


Of course I can. I can do anything. I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
There is a homework forum hosted by engineering.com: http://www.engineering.com/AskForum/aff/32.aspx

RE: Should I just give up?

MG...you've chosen a frustrating but rewarding career. I won't repeat what the others have said...which is very good by the way....just chin up and don't give up....

Latexman...thank you for reminding all that Jimmy V was a true inspiration. Since 2006 the Delta Chi fraternity has partnered with the V Foundation to raise money for cancer research. There is no better cause in my opinion. Each Chapter commits to the V Foundation each year under the premise "Don't Give Up....Don't Ever Give Up". My son and I are Delta Chi brothers and proud to support the Jimmy V Foundation.

RE: Should I just give up?

When I went to school, many centuries ago, the university placement office said they would help out graduates even several years out. I had never had to call them on that. But maybe you should.
You have a ready made source of leads and interviews. Plus with a few years experience, you might stand out (in a good way) from the new graduates.

RE: Should I just give up?

TheMechanicaGenius, just out of interest what do you consider to be "Engineering"?

For me doing detail design of parts to meet functional requirements and ensure manufacturability and then capturing this information in 3D & 2D CAD, applying appropriate tolerances in drawings that meet industry standards... counts somewhat as Engineering.

If you are literally just taking hand sketches or something and then putting them into CAD maybe not but if you're doing some level of design then yes, and it should give you a chance to show your capability so you get more responsibility.

Are you doing the CAD work & drafting well? After all these years do you have a good understanding of how to create a good drawing that complies with industry standards? Do you know to properly apply geometric controls to ASME Y14.5 or other relevant spec? You know and apply modelling best practices? Or, because you see drafting as below you have you been doing the minimum to keep a pay check coming in?

While I may have been in error, my view point was that if my job required me to do CAD & drafting I was going to learn to do it as well as I possibly could. So I don't have much sympathy for those that whine about doing their own drafting & CAD or even worse refuse to do a good job/just scrape by (not saying this necessarily applies to you). If you aren't willing to do one of your job responsibilities well you should find another job - which in fairness it appears from this thread you are trying to do.

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: Should I just give up?

MG, you're still one up: You want to do something. Use this, it's yours. Then also you have a competence.
Been a "draftsperson" quite a long time, got to engineer by proposing solutions and speaking out when there was a thing to say. There's a place and a time, you shall surely have a chance to chip in something someday, don't you? Play the GENIUS card, seems you tell us it's on your deck ?! winky smile

If seeking another carreer, why not making up some business of your own? Get some background on commercial / BA and perhaps dig out some funding? Be & speak local, look what's needed around you.
If nothing comes up, why not staying & making do? It's rather the mirror than the paycheck that gives the answer to a self-esteem in question.
Best of luck!

RE: Should I just give up?

Barry Schwartz describes your situation in this talk:
Link

But didn't show the alternative...

RE: Should I just give up?

(OP)
Thanks everyone for RSVPing to my pity party!
Some additional info:
I meant to have my screen name say the mechancalgenius, but I spelled it wrong. I've always been able to fix anything mechanical.

I do work at a tiny company. I wanted get into a mid sized company with a support staff so I didn't have to do all the grunt work.

I have my EIT certificate and should be able to sit for the PE if any of my experience doing grunt work counts.

I can't move my wife has a really good job.

I guess my two main gripes are that others have WAY more success than me getting good careers with less experience and lower grades, probably cause they know someone, and it seems like you can't get a job unless you do the same thing somewhere else. Just not sure how to break through...I mean I could go somewhere else and do cad and BOMs and other BS but I'll still hate it.

Thought about taking a year off.

Just feel like my career will never get off the ground..

RE: Should I just give up?

"mechancalgenius" is also misspelled. Anyway, your handle is easy to fix. Just left click "Red Flag this post" on any of your posts and ask them to correct your handle. Just be sure you get it right THAT time.

Good luck,
Latexman

To a ChE, the glass is always full - 1/2 air and 1/2 water.

RE: Should I just give up?

"others have WAY more success than me getting good careers with less experience and lower grades, probably cause they know someone,"

Unless you are antisocial, there's no reasons you can't "know someone." Others have given suggestions about where to hang up to get some exposure to other engineers, which is a first step.

TTFN
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
homework forum: //www.engineering.com/AskForum/aff/32.aspx
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers

RE: Should I just give up?

"Should I just give up?" An interesting one, which begs a few other questions.

They reckon decision making is always easier if you can turn it into a pairwise comparison between valid options, so my first question is "Give up and do what instead?"

Do you have an alternative talent you sidelined in favour of engineering that you could rekindle and turn into a fulfilling career?

Do you see a path to fulfillment based on doing stuff that improves people's lives, but not through the medium of formalised engineering? If your wife has a good job, did you have something unpaid in mind?

Do you see a path to wealth and influence through, for instance, general management?

Were you thinking more in terms of giving it up in favour of no future at all?

If you were tending towards the last of those ideas, tell somebody today: Your wife; your boss; your mate down the pub; your doctor - just somebody who has time to listen to you.

For all the other options (and the better ones you think up yourself), the mental act of sculpting them into valid options (rather than straw men) that are well enough developed for you to compare them may be helpful.

"others have WAY more success than me getting good careers with less experience and lower grades"

Another old engineering adage: "If you're in a hole, it never hurts to measure the depth".

Which others have way more success?

Why are you comparing yourself to them? Is it because you were all part of the same group? Who else was in that group? Where are they all now - including the ones you don't see bragging about how well they're doing?

What's the measure of a good career? Have they landed the very jobs that you were desperate to get? Are the jobs they are doing now the sort of job you'd enjoy doing all day every day? Are the jobs they are doing now the sort of job they enjoy doing all day every day? Is it about pay? Status? Respect? Fulfillment? How many of those boxes can any of them tick simultaneously? How many of those boxes are important to you?

All really the sort of question people ask without expecting an answer..

Best wishes.

A.

RE: Should I just give up?

Boy, zeusfaber, that post was well timed. I return to work from 4 weeks holidays tomorrow, and my last week to ten days of that holiday have been destroyed because of how much I'm dreading it. I'm in a huge all-time funk over my career right now, but nothing will end that except going through the exact process that you describe. It's sort of like being in the office working on an ugly design problem that *must* be solved - the time you spend bummed out about how ugly it is will not solve it, you just have to start solving it.

In economic times like this, especially on the EPC side of the business, I think everyone feels a bit like TheMechanicaGenius. My post is not intended to marginalize the theme or hijack the thread, just to reinforce that I think your post nails the path towards the resolution.

I think I should do exactly the same in my own situation.

RE: Should I just give up?

MG:

You and I are the same age. Actually we followed parallel paths for a while, as I had a 3 year diploma (similar to a technology degree here in Canada), went back to University ~11 years ago, got an engineering degree from a well ranked university, then went out into the working world.

I spent a few years doing design but mostly drafting for a company building industrial machinery, so I had the opportunity to crank out many drawings, and experience many issues on the shop floor due to mistakes (mine and others). Do I love drafting? No. But I've experienced enough of the aforementioned issues to know that simple little mistakes in the drafting process have the potential to throw months of effort and millions of dollars of investment down the tube. So I recognized it was important and when I had a stack of drawings to create / review / approve, I took a deep breath and dove in. As some had also experienced, after a few years of it I managed to propose ideas both for designs as well as process improvements that served the company well. Felt good when it happened, but the drafting work never went away.

About 2 years ago I was contacted by my current employer, who at the time was just a small but growing startup of about 40 people. I joined as a mechanical engineer, and have had the chance to work on some pretty cool stuff. We're in the medical device industry, and our products include optical systems, robotics and medical imaging systems. Sometimes walking through the R&D section feels like walking through Q-Branch in a Bond movie... but guess what? I spend a huge chunk of my time doing... yes... drafting, not to mention procurement, shipping, receiving, building, testing and Change Order-ing (all "grunt work" as you called it). Today my title is Mechanical Engineering Manager, but I like the title "guy with the dirty hands" instead.

I had ZERO experience in medical device design when I joined here, but I had extensive drafting and design experience. In fact, based on my previous experiences as a drafter, I've had the opportunity to write our company's internal design and drafting standards from scratch. As my team grows (company has quadrupled in size since I started) I get to do less of the drafting work, but I will never fully give it up as I have taken ownership over the quality of our company's outgoing drawings.

I guess the point of all of this is to say that the grass is only as green as you are willing to recognize it to be. I would not have been able to do what I'm doing today if I had the attitude that I hated what I was doing. When I was approached about this job, it was made clear that they needed someone who could do much of the company's mechanical drafting as we grew. If I hated drafting, I would not have made the jump to (what was at the time) a high risk startup. Sure, I'd love to be spending all of my days coming up with cool concept designs for the next MRI-guided surgical robot. I know that days like that are in fact on the horizon, but we as a company won't get there tomorrow unless my team and I knock off the pile of drawings on our Next-Actions list today. And once we do come up with that awesome concept, it's going to mean another pile of drawings in our N-A list. We need to take the bitter with the sweet.

But, if you carry this hatred toward your work that you seem to espouse, and want to "get into a mid sized company with a support staff so (you don't) have to do all the grunt work" then its not that likely that you're going to get to do anything truly great. Your choice.

RE: Should I just give up?

OK Mechanical Genius so what you're saying is CAD drafting etc. is below you.

thread730-221206: I Hate Drawings!!!

If you don't want to do at least some CAD work & drafting then you probably want to become something like project manager or some kind of analyst or the like in much of industry.

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: Should I just give up?

If you like engineering, consider possibly taking a job like in controls, power, or something completely outside of mechanical engineering. Power engineering is dying for bodies and substation design and transmission design does use some aspects of mechanical for sizing foundations, and towers for wind,ice, and other loadings. Protection is pretty interesting as well and you probably can get a job with less trouble than you would expect just due to their being a shortage and fresh grads often have had if you are lucky one power class.

Or I suppose if you don't feel it for engineering or engineering isn't feeling you, you could join the other 60% of your graduating class and use your engineering for something outside of engineering like business or finance.

RE: Should I just give up?

(OP)
I'm not above any job. I wouldn't mind doing SOME drafting. The last three jobs I had where 90% drafting on a good day. People keep telling me I just don't like engineering. Is this why I went to school for four years? Learned calculus, diff was, fluids, dynamics, fea etc? I had 2 semesters of drafting in engineering technology. I hesitate to even call it drafting because all we did was 3D modeling. I have been told my resume is good. I just an interview and they really liked me but chose anotber candidate.

Just feel like I'm wasting my time. The only experience I have is 2D drafting, so that's all anyone will hire me to do. I mean, yeah project engineering would be awesome. Only problem is you need experience. I looked at getting a pmp cert. but you have to have so many hours experience to even take the test.

If I had to pick a field I would say automotive would be my dream. I work on cars, motorcycles and tractors for fun. Rebuild transmissions, engines do upholstery and paint etc. My guess would be if I applied for a job at any car company I would get an automatic rejection letter immediately. I also really like FEA. Seems like to get those jobs you need at least a PHD and 20 years experience. Project engineering would be good do. I like managing things. I do it for all my personal restoration projects. It's fun to spec parts and develope mental process flow diagrams.

Don't mean to be a downer or whatever but I just feel this is absurd...shouldn't be this hard to do something else engineering related. I even tried to apply for entry level jobs for less money just to get the experience to no avail.
I feel like my best bet is to give up, go back to school AGAIN and try to get an MBA or teaching certification and leave engineering. Never giving up sounds great, but really, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.

Thanks for all the help, suggestions and encouragent. Sorry to be so negative. Just at the end of my rope. Invested six years and enough money to buy a house and I'm stuck doing something I absolutely hate with no end in sight...


RE: Should I just give up?

With that attitude there is nothing you will be successful doing, including personal relationships. Consider the effects you are having on those around you at work. Life is difficult for everyone, at times. Rather than focusing on what others can do to make you happy, try helping your coworkers by not only doing your job well, but helping them however you can. This is what gets you noticed and opens opportunities for advancement that you had no idea existed. The trick to doing this is to have the primary goal of leaving every one you have contact with feeling better than before. Smiling makes others feel better and it will make you feel better, even when you do not feel like smiling. Try imagining that you are watching a video recording of yourself interacting with other people every time you speak. Are you projecting the image of someone whom you would respect? If you feel the urge to say something negative, just do not do it. We do not always have control of our feelings, but we are all always fully responsible for our behavior.

Giving any hint of the attitude you display here, during an interview, will almost certainly kill your chances of getting the job. This is because toxic work environments are created by toxic people. You may not realize it but you appear to be one.

You probably think that if you get that perfect job, you will be happy. That is very unlikely. Once you have basic needs met, like food, shelter, and not being buried in debt, you can be happy in almost any job.

Something I've observed over the years is that people with bad attitudes do not really understand what that means, and therefore do not understand how to correct it. "Attitude" does not mean how you feel inside. It is the behavior you display to others that affects how they feel.

RE: Should I just give up?

Are you drinking enough? Self-medication might help - if you are seriously hungover everyday at work it might not seem so bad.

Otherwise, good luck. Don't quit, or at least don't call it quitting. I hope you find something more fun and challenging. Something with a mechanical contractor might be good, something with short duration projects that each have some new/different aspect. I also think that anything that involves welding is commendable.

RE: Should I just give up?

(OP)
While it may be true that I can control my behavior, its really hard, for me at least, to be super excited when im genuinely not. I don't really complain more than anyone else. There are a few people I confide in privately. Some people have however said I appear depressed. I am.

While I'm there, I do the best job I can. Work long hours if necessary to get the work done. But the truth is I just can't get excited about it. I guess doing the work isn't enough if I make others miserable by acting depressed.

I am always positive on interviews. I try to apply at places I would have a sincere interest in working. I try to be friendly, honest and try to have fun with them. I should try that at work maybe.

I will try harder to be positive. I keep telling myself at least I have a job and "this too shall pass". It is good advice to leave people better off after having dealt with them. To be honest I never really thought about what it meant to have a good attitude. I will try harder to put out a more positive vibe at work.

Thanks for the advice.

RE: Should I just give up?

Good for you! Now that is the right attitude. Seek medical attention if this persists. Drinking reasonably can help, but I suggest avoiding hangovers. Going to your neighborhood bar (as in the show "Cheers") will introduce you to people with greater problems than yours and help you to appreciate your blessings. And lithium tablets are available on the Internet as a "dietary supplement".

RE: Should I just give up?

(OP)
Yeah really trying not to go the antidepressants route... We just had a baby so I don't want to drink too much either.

I know plenty of people on antidepressants because they hate their job... I think it's really sad how intolerable most jobs seem to be.

Hope things get better.

RE: Should I just give up?

"Learned calculus, diff was, fluids, dynamics, fea etc? "

Hate to burst your bubble, but I've done more calculus helping my kids with their AP Calc than at work. But, I do have a cheat at work, since most of any integral calculus is done with Mathcad. But, PDE's? No. Schwartz-Christoffel transforms? Never. The point of learning all of that is not that that you necessarily get to apply any or even all of that at work, but that you MIGHT. As an engineer, it's unlikely that anything more than about 10% of your learned math can be applied, since you have FEA tools, Mathcad, Excel, etc., to do that now. But, you do have the math to check the results or do simple preliminary calcs

As an engineer, the bulk of your future WILL involve CAD. The days of having a separate drafter following around an engineer is GONE; partly because the detailed design required almost as much technical chops as the initial conceptual design.


TTFN
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
homework forum: //www.engineering.com/AskForum/aff/32.aspx
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers

RE: Should I just give up?

I never understood mental health issues until it hit close to home for me.

For work issues family and spouse will never get it unless they have the same work issues - a hired ear works best for this

As far as better living through chemistry, never understood it until I saw it work wonders for a friend of mine - you just need to try different meds until you settle on the one that gives you the best results. But I would go as long as I could before going down this path just because getting the right meds can be a struggle in itself

RE: Should I just give up?

Can we stop trying to diagnose the OP with depression or other mental disorders, please? It is inappropriate. I doubt any of you have a background in psychology. He just sounds like a disgruntled employee to me.

As far as my advice to the OP, it would be to find whatever will make you happy and do that thing. There are definitely engineering jobs out there that are less CAD-intensive, but remember that unless you produce widgets, your deliverables are your construction documents, so quality drawings are essential. I rarely draw a single line of CAD because we have a drafting department... but I probably spend half my week or more on marking up and back-checking drawings and making sure they convey my designs as clearly and correctly as possible. I do engineering work every day, but I've done calculus by hand maybe once since college.

RE: Should I just give up?

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

RE: Should I just give up?

From what I've seen I'm not sure the OP would be happier in any other engineering job. I've had LOTS of them, and for the most part enjoyed them all. Maybe I missed it, but I don't think we have heard from the OP what he thinks he would be happy doing, just what he is unhappy doing. For me, I have always enjoyed both the design part and the documentation part of my job(s). I enjoy coming up with ideas to solve problems and then documenting my solution in such a way that it communicates completely and accurately, looks professional, and gives the reader the impression that the author knew what he was doing.

I also enjoy learning new and better ways to do my work. I started on the board. Never had a single class in AutoCAD or Solidworks, but am the "go-to" guy in our office for either one. I've written numerous special commands that save myself and my co-workers a lot of time. I sit at home and think about what I'm doing at work. Work is not something I "escape" from.

I also have enough experience to know what I do not enjoy: Anything that involves management level business accounting puts me right to sleep, FAST. ZERO Tolerance. I've accepted the fact that because of that little issue I will never rise to the level of management that isn't really involved in daily engineering problem solving.

I feel lucky that I identified at an early age what my career calling was. I would recommend that the OP find his soon.

RE: Should I just give up?

Greetings All!!

Great insights from everyone.

I am in job-search phase since December 2014. Sometimes, I feel the same as you mentioned in your posts OP-theMechanicalGenius; but one thing that I always keep at the back of my mind is : I REFUSE to Give In and I shall thrive!

I agree with many people in this thread, that MINDSET is what matters the most. It does not Just give us Hope, but it also shapes our character.

I do not want to go all 'quoty' on you, but since you mentioned Zero Luck.. here it goes : 'I'm a greater believer in luck, and I find..the harder I work the more I have of it” - Thomas Jefferson

I am not that experienced enough like others in this group, but I would suggest OP.. Never Give Up, Buddy.

Well-wisher.


Best regards,
K.
--------------------------
“Though the problems of the world are increasingly complex,
the solutions remain embarrassingly simple.” - Bill Mollison

*Stay hungry*

RE: Should I just give up?

I had a similar past, and in fact left a stable drafting job when I realized that I was never going to be permitted to do any true engineering work. But, then I still didn't find any engineering work for many years. I ended up with the job at I have now because it was a long-time friend I had done drafting for early in my career. It is a 5-man company, and he is paying me at least 1/3 less than what I might be able to earn doing some of the advanced drafting work I have done in the past. And, even now, at least 75% of my work is drafting. But, that remaining 25% of my work doing engineering and research is extremely satisfying. Eventually, I may need to leave my current job if he is not able to pay me more, but then I will be able to add the word "engineer" to my resume.

The reason I stick with the lower pay, is that I have realized that I am an engineer, and cannot really be happy ignoring the gifts God gave me. It is not unusual for a job to not be where our talents lay, and you stick with it because you must pay your bills. So in that situation, it is is important to use your creative engineering talents somewhere outside of work. E.g. a robotics hobby. But, at some point, it is certainly worth doing more job hunting to find work that will use your education.

I will also mention another issue. Since I had so many years of work, that did not involve engineering after my eduction, that engineering knowledge started to fade. When I look over my notebooks, and see all the types of problems I really can not do now, I am disappointed. And even now, I feel very much on my own, and would have much preferred to have worked for several years as a junior engineer, with someone to go to with questions. So, that is another factor to weight.

Sometimes we just accept the situation as it is, because of other priorities. I have not pursued jobs in other cities, because I really like where I am now. You may have a family that takes priority, and that is a good choice. Most of the people I have worked for, had degrees in other areas. Though they were often somewhat related. I suppose they had to follow the opportunities as they presented themselves.

There is also a type of inertia that can set in once you get into a job. While you do need to show some stability to future employers, if you have been at your current job for several years, and don't see prospects for a good future there, you need to keep looking and networking for your future job. It may also help to discuss this with your current employer, and come up with a plan for you to start doing more engineering. But, most of the advice I have come across, say that you normally need to change companies to advance.

-Joe

RE: Should I just give up?

We heard you that you do NOT want to be a drafter as a career. What do you WANT to do?

Have you considered a field engineering role? Those people don't have much time or use for CAD stations, and they get their hands on all kinds of stuff quickly. It would also be a good way to get in close with how project management works.

There are engineering jobs out that involve little or no CAD. I have one of them. I spend too much of my time trying to figure out how to keep pumps running and get things through our procurement process to worry about CAD. I actually work with dedicated drafters and designers and have for years.

I thought about giving up on, but eventually I found jobs that I really like.

Good luck in your search!

RE: Should I just give up?

Quote (someguy79)

What do you WANT to do?

What Color is your Parachute?

This handbook, published in 1970 and updated every year since 1975 I believe, is an excellent reference for, among other things, figuring out what you want to be when you grow up, which for me, happened when I was about 40.

Skip,

glassesJust traded in my OLD subtlety...
for a NUance!tongue

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources