Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
(OP)
I've got a number of projects in the works where six story wood construction, which is new to me, is being considered. They are all to be six stories of conventional wood (stick not timber) constructed above ground level transfer slabs. I'm seeking advice regarding this kind of construction as well as any published resources that may be available. Certainly, I'll be speaking with trade organizations such as the Canadian Wood Council. I'm hoping to jump start my knowledge quest, however, by requesting help from the crew here.
So far, I've got this from British Columbia's licensing body: Link
And for clever ideas, I have the following:
1) The dominant issues seem to be shrinkage, lateral load resistance, and wall construction at the heavily loaded lower floors.
2) Potentially, once could rotate the unit framing direction part way up the building with the goal of spreading the load, and some of the shrinkage around.
3) The height which brick is used ought to be limited to mitigate differential movement between brick and the doors and windows behind the joints.
4) Special detailing can be used for mechanical and electrical risers to mitigate the impacts of shrinkage on those systems.
Any other great ideas, articles, or manuals out there?
So far, I've got this from British Columbia's licensing body: Link
And for clever ideas, I have the following:
1) The dominant issues seem to be shrinkage, lateral load resistance, and wall construction at the heavily loaded lower floors.
2) Potentially, once could rotate the unit framing direction part way up the building with the goal of spreading the load, and some of the shrinkage around.
3) The height which brick is used ought to be limited to mitigate differential movement between brick and the doors and windows behind the joints.
4) Special detailing can be used for mechanical and electrical risers to mitigate the impacts of shrinkage on those systems.
Any other great ideas, articles, or manuals out there?
I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.






RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
It's helpful if you elaborate upon why you feel that it should not be done.
I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
fp innovations seem to be the ones that are publishing a tall wood building structural design guide, I believe it was published in the last few months. Hopefully it will save reinventing the wheel on new details specific to this type of construction.
As an aside, I am not quite yet convinced that at this point in time it will result in cheaper construction. Down the road, possibly.
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
My test is whether I would choose to live in it or not. A six storey wooden building is not for me.
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
You could use a combination of platform and balloon framing. That would make your transfer slab conditions easier to handle as you would have fewer such conditions.
Warn of but disclaim ANY responsibility for waterproofing. Water will be the absolute enemy of this construction and if waterproofing is not done correctly, the structure can fail miserably. That includes things like the selection of the exterior cladding, designing for serviceability deflection for that cladding (be very conservative!!), and detailing the waterproofing for constructability and serviceability.
Good luck if you must do it.
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
I agree there are many out there, but many times I see the decision to use wood is not always carefully considered.
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
I recently turned down some multi-family wood (~3 stories) because I was concerned my client would not like my design (other reasons too). My client was used to getting multi-family wood designs from an Architect with no engineered stamp. Frankly, I don't understand how architects get away with that, but that's another story...Anyways, I turned it down because I knew I would be doing it right, with diaphragm chords, collectors, etc. etc. Simpson and or USP would have loved me. But, I had worked with this client a few other times and he proved to me that cost reigned supreme. I worried that I would upset him by designing it right. Meanwhile, he is used to it being basically done using prescriptive methods which, IMHO don't have a complete load path.
With all that said, I think that it's still a worthwhile project to take on, as long as the owner/architect aren't concerned solely about price. Also, RISA has some great software that you could potentially tackle the project with.
One other thing to consider. Have you ever heard of http://www.infinitystructures.com/? I'm sure there are other comparables too. These folks specialize in cold-formed stud construction for multi-story. They compress the walls as they build them in a shop. These go up very fast and don't have nearly the issues that wood does. They do a lot of the engineering in house too.
Also, check out this article by woodworks http://www.woodworks.org/wp-content/uploads/5-over...
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
The biggest piece of advice is make sure the contractor, architect, and all else involved know what they're getting into. As you're aware the lower floors will be much larger and heavier than is used in typical construction. Make sure the initial drawings, estimates, etc. are based on an accurate rough design so that everyone can make sure they aren't caught off guard when you start specifying 2x8 studs at 6" o.c.
Make sure to budget and provide contract language so that you can put extra time into this if/when the revisions come in. Small changes can easily ripple through the building causing massive headaches with rechecking all your details. Large wood structures are the worst for revisions and "small" changes IMO.
I'd prepare everyone to expect some steel/concrete in the first floor framing at a minimum. Interior bearing walls are also a good idea.
Floor trusses will be your friend here, they're a pretty good method to economically span a long way.
Make sure that the architect gives you enough wall length to have proper shearwalls. Don't go to the steel or expensive wood shearwall details unless you have to. Make sure holddowns have a path to the foundation as they are going to be critical.
As you mentioned shrinkage, bearing, and deflection can be an issue. I'd say you're correct with limiting the use of masonry or other items that can't shrink with the wood. The large building I did were 100% wood framing (minus a few steel beams) so we avoided that issue.
Maine Professional and Structural Engineer. www.fepc.us
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
I attended a seminar in Quebec City on 5-6 story lightweight wood structures. I recall 3 major challenges specific to these structures:
1. Fire safety requirements (non combustible cladding, fire separations everywhere, etc);
2. Vertical deformations from shrinkage and creep in sill plates and top plates (that can exceed 30 mm!). Special plumbing fittings and shrinkage compensating anchors must be used);
3. Minimal length of shearwall to respect the lateral drift criterion. If I remember correctly, you need a shearwall length of H/3.5 minimum. That might be problematic with the architect!
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
How did you control deflections? Defections at the center of the hoist beam can be handled by using a steel beam (or a very large LVL, would that even be allowed?) Did you ignore the deflection of the supporting members?
Or did this elevator use a telescoping cylinder?
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
Would braced frames work better?
Inspector Jeff
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
Simpson Strong-Tie has developed a lateral restraint system in recent years involving continuous threaded rods with devices that would take up the slack as the wood framing in the walls shrink over time. This system appears to have advantages in such "stacked" framing designs. I an intrigued if anyone has had experience with such a system; furthermore, would it be a feasible system for a tall structure as proposed on this thread?
Richard L. Flower, P. E., LEED Green Associate
Senior Structural Engineer
Complere Engineering Group, Inc.
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
More concerning than the deflection was fire protection issues. That was much more problematic.
Maine Professional and Structural Engineer. www.fepc.us
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
*Woodworks is a good resource. Also, Terry Malone's book.
*Shrinkage is the big issue. Relative shrinkage between CMU, brick, steel and pipes are an issue. Don't fight it, allow for it. Check the coefficient of thermal expansion for PVC.
*Do not run brick over 4 stories. Use a relieving angle if you go taller; even that is a bad idea.
*I've never had to use LSL plates for loads. It may help in shrinkage, but keep in mind, you can't have engineered wood be FRT. I assume this is 3A construction, so all wood in the exterior walls needs to be FRT and therefore can't be engineered lumber
* 2x6 exterior walls. 2x6 corridor walls are nice, but not necessary. 2x4 interior bearing walls will work, but expect triple studs at the bottom. 18" trusses and
* Lateral is perfectly doable (unless you are in a crazy wind or seismic zone). Use a shrinkage compensating system like Simpson, CLP or Quick tie. Use all of the unit separation walls and all of the Corridor walls. You may need OSB or thermoply at the bottom few floors. Exterior walls will be fairly useless in shear.
*If the owner intends for these to be high end condos, use another system. Condo owners don't want to see settlement cracks in drywall.
A few lessons learned.
*FRT studs do not dry out the same way as non FRT studs. Expect differential settlement.
*Exterior sheathing can restrain the shrinkage of the wood. The outside wall may not shrink like the inside walls.
*PVC pipes need allowance for movement vertically.
When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty but when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong.
-R. Buckminster Fuller
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
And that in Vienna they're planning a 275 foot tall wood skyscraper
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
Fire rated wood might help but that stuff is problematic.
Inspector Jeff
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
Inspector Jeff
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty but when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong.
-R. Buckminster Fuller
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
Inspector Jeff
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
{
A LOT MORE WORK THEREFORE YOU WILL NEED MORE FEE.
REMEMBER APEGBC’S POSITION IS THAT AN INADEQUATE FEE IS
NOT AN EXCUSE FOR INADEQUATE WORK
GOOD LUCK TO THOSE WHO ARE PIONEERS IN THESE BUILDINGS,
PAY ATTENTION THERE WILL BE MANY MORE PITFALLS THAN WE
HAVE IDENTIFIED HERE TO DATE, MORE TO COME
}
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
Fire Safety Challenges of Tall Wood Buildings
http://www.nfpa.org/research/fire-protection-resea...
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
Regarding Fire Protection Issues
While I understand and share the concerns, I don't believe that this is my purview as the structural engineer. Fire protection engineers and scientists have influenced the fire protection regulations that apply to tall wood structures. I can only assume that they have taken the necessary steps to create levels of fire safety in tall wood buildings that are compatible with the levels of fire safety provided in other buildings.
This is just as we would do for, say, the seismic hazard level for different types of construction. Let us also not forget that there was a time when many of our ilk objected to the use of structural steel on account of the perceived fire safety risks. These are technological issues that often find resolution over time.
On With the Fun Stuff
I'm not clear on how combining platform and balloon framing would eliminate transfer slab conditions. Can you elaborate?
Thanks for the advice. Part of this is a costing exercise being performed by a dominant (perhaps the dominant) player in the residential development market. It will be interesting to see what they come up with. We've had difficulty in the past with load bearing steel stud projects in our market (also your market I think). There seem to be relatively few CFM contractors skilled at doing anything other than infill wall. We get relatively few bids on the work and have endless CA issues. Is your experience with CFM significantly better?
Is construction insurance really more expensive for wood frame projects? Do you know the premium? Is it a fire risk issue as well?
In my latest incarnation, part of the team that I'm responsible for does nothing but multi-family wood frame buildings all day every day. It's about 30% of our portfolio and all of it rolls out the door with my stamp on it. I no longer have the luxury of avoiding light frame wood altogether. Time will tell if I can survive being... the way that I am.
I must know more. Can you give me a project name or a link of some sort? How does prefabricated, free-standing brick mitigate differential shrinkage issues?
It's something that I'll be keeping a close eye on for sure. If steel braces were required, that might exacerbate the differential shrinkage issue.
Great idea. We already do this on our four story projects. Can you tell me any more about how the elevator sills can be adjusted and why that's less possible for the stairs? I'm afraid that I don't have the hands on construction experience to understand how that works.
I've considered this. Any issues getting the numbers to work where the LSL is parallel to the floor framing?
Can anyone confirm whether or not this is really a great idea? It would spread the load around better but, on the other hand, would make the framing less repetitive. I've heard plenty of talk of turning the framing part way up but have yet to see a structure done this way out in the wild.
Wow, thank goodness you brought this up Manstrom. This is likely the case in my jurisdiction (Alberta) as well. I would have felt pretty foolish messing this up.
This is exactly how it's panning out, even with reasonably spaced windows. It's good to hear this confirmed.
Whoa!! Six story stick = drywall cracking?? That could be a problem. This is shrinkage related cracking predominantly?
Yesir. Check this one out at 13 stories: Link. Canadian bad asses I tell you!
Yeah, I got a kick out of that. As though inadequate fee wasn't the root cause of inadequate engineering in light frame wood since the invention of the 2x4.
I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
Why not? Can you elaborate?
I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
I have seen drywall cracking on a few 5/6 story wood buildings. All due to differential settlement. Most renters and building owners will accept this, but not condo owners. The biggest place that I see it is between exterior walls and interior walls. On the top 1 or 2 floors there can be a vertical crack where the two walls join. If there is a door perpendicular to and just adjacent to the exterior wall, the outside part of the door will want to push up since the outside wall doesn't shrink like the inside wall.
Balloon framing in this sense refers to running the wall up from the top of the sheathing to the bottom of the sheathing and hanging the trusses off the side (where it is bearing). Instead of having 5 plates in a platform framed wall (2 top, 1 bottom, 2 in the truss), you have 3 plates (2 top, 1 bottom) to limit shrinkage. If you are going to do this, you should do it at all bearing walls. Otherwise you risk too relative settlement issues between walls framed different ways.
When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty but when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong.
-R. Buckminster Fuller
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
My thought with the framing is that I usually have (not always) 2x6 exterior and corridor walls and 2x4 party walls. I get stuck requiring triple or quad 2x4's on my bottom level for the party walls (trusses spanning between party walls) but a singe 2x6 for the corridors and exterior walls. Why should we be taking all the load to 2x4's instead of 2x6's? Switching directions would relieve the load on the 2x4's in this case, but I'm not sure how it affects the mechanical systems, particularly the mechanical chases.
When I have the floor trusses parallel to the LSL, I use a 2x4 knee wall next to a 1 3/4" LSL rim board and spec 1/4" plywood filler to match the thickness of the 2x6 walls above and below. Then I kick off the floor trusses every so often to brace the knee wall. We've used a similar condition with lapped rim boards to act as headers over windows that have no room for conventional headers with trusses framing into. Contractors haven't complained yet, though some have asked if they can use OSB. The 1 3/4" LSL rim board is certainly more expensive than a 1" or 1 1/4" LSL rim board, but you get the properties of an LSL beam going to the wider thickness. The only problem is the throughbolt spacing for the shelf angle to the rim board gets a pretty close spacing, usually 16-18 inches.
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
I unfortunately cannot elaborate, that comment was attributed to the presenter in the Woodworks seminar (Thomas Leung), a structural engineer from B.C. who is part of the committee on tall wood structures and also structural engineer for quite a few of the initial tall framed wood structures. I found the comment interesting .... but have no further information to elaborate.
Other interesting items from the seminars:
- Sound transmission mitigation must be dealt with by architect, but can have an impact on how structural details may need to be detailed.
- Fire safety during construction is very important (Contractor's responsibility). See link to article ( http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/kingston-... )
- Lots of Simpson's type hold downs required to compensate for shrinkage
- Panelized construction techniques were emphasized over and over and over. One of the ways they justify cost savings is by speed of construction using panelized floor and wall systems, i.e. build 1 storey per week, therefore you save costs by reducing overhead items such as A) time for site trailer on site, B) reduced site supervision time during shortened construction period, etc.... Construction insurance is more expensive, so also need to offset those costs as well. Stick framing was not being promoted as cost effective.
- Engineering and architecture time is higher at both the design stage and construction phase. The devil is in the details.
I think the tall wood structure is in it's infancy in Canada, but will likely become popular as engineers and architects and specialty contractors become familiar with the in's and out's of the system.
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
Economics
Apparently, in many markets, it is parking requirements that render six story wood buildings unfeasible. In my market, a four story wood building can be developed on a tight site with one level of parking below grade but a six story building must have two stories of parking below grade. Apparently, it is that extra below grade parking level that really hurts.
One of the presentations was by a structural engineer practicing in British Columbia. Apparently, there, there's no such thing as a light framed wood building currently being built in the metropolitan areas. Virtually everything that he's done in the last few years has been five or six story. That being said, BC is wood country and they have legislated several initiatives that tilt the scales in favor of tall wood.
Fire
Apparently, modern fire codes for mid-story wood establish parity wrt fire hazard between wood and other systems, including non-combustible systems.
1) Building officials seek to establish comparable heat release curves. An example is shown below. Apparently, if the other rules of the road are followed, you can have a light framed wood apartment with a heat release curve comparable to that of a non-combustible system.
2) For now, while we're waiting for research to disseminate, Canadian codes are keeping the volume of wood the same in six story buildings as it is in four story buildings. i.e. If your building is taller then the footprint must be smaller, keeping the fire load similar. Really, in a building that is taller but smaller in plan, your travel time to a fire rated shaft would be shorter in a mid-rise building.
3) I guess they've been doing these kinds of buildings for a while now in the pacific northwest (US). The wood industry has queried fire officials in that region and, apparently, they don't feel that mid-rise wood buildings pose any more of a threat to occupants or firefighters than do similar sized non-combustible buildings.
4) In my opinion, what follows was the most intriguing bit of all. It seems that, with modern fire safety technology, fire hazard has become decoupled from construction material. Statistically, fire safety is almost 100% about having functioning sprinklers and alarms now. If you have those things in play, mortality is extremely low and it's unlikely that a fire will even get beyond the room that it originated in. The main issue lately in sprinklered buildings has been balcony to balcony, BBQ initiated fires on balconies without sprinklers. Now that they're adding sprinklers to balconies, this is also ceasing to be an issue. In summary, if you've got sprinklers and alarms, combustible/non-combustible isn't really relevant, despite the emphasis still placed on it by the code.
Construction Insurance Premiums
Increased premiums are, not surprisingly, related to the propensity for enormous wood buildings to burst into flame during construction. And, as far as I heard at the seminar, there isn't a great answer to this. Most mid-rise buildings that catch on fire during construction burn to the ground in spectacular fashion and the fire load is such that not much can be done. Some mitigating strategies include:
1) Having watchmen on site 24/7
2) Constructing firewalls in advance of the wood framing in between.
3) Constructing units, complete with drywall, at intervals ahead of other, unsheathed units. The drywalled units act as fire barriers.
Solid Wood Elevator Shafts?
In BC, they're building their elevator shafts out of solid, laminated 2x6's. See the photo below. This baffled me and continues to. I asked several presenters about this and never received a satisfactory answer. Some of the suggestions provided include:
1) Provides fire rating!
2) Dampens elevator vibration!
3) Required for shaft stiffness in seismic country!
4) Makes it easy to install elevator rails!
5) Shafts must stand while surrounding building burns down!
6) It seems like a reasonable way to replace a CMU shaft!
I'm skeptical of many of these reasons and believe that many of them could be dealt with more economically. If anybody knows the definitive reason for using solid wood elevator shafts, I'd love to hear about it.
I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
1. The use of wood may eliminate the coordination of another trade, and
2. In that elevator shafts are you ally shear walls too, they would integrate better laterally and vertically with wood shear walls, and
3. They may take less time to erect and load up than CMU.
4. They a be cheaper.
Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
Another reason for using it presently, at least in high seismic regions, would be to reduce the dead load of the stricture. Compared to fully grouted CMU, it is 1/3rd of the weight. Considering the weight of an entity structure it is probably not much, but every little bit helps - ant you do not have to use strut and tie! ;)
Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
There are typically two framing options - Spanning between exterior wall and corridor wall or Spanning between demising walls.
If spanning between exterior wall and corridor wall you could utilize top chord bearing to help eliminate shrinkage related to the rim joist, right? At the walls parallel to the trusses you would just have extra top plates that equals the thickness of the top chord of the truss right?
If spanning between demising walls - Options: 1.) In order to align trusses, have one truss bottom chord bearing and the other truss top chord bearing (on top of other truss), 2.) stagger the trusses, 3) Provide hangers on one side of the wall and top chord bear the other side trusses. If you use option 1.) then you would have a rim joist with potential shrinkage, although I like Mike's solution mentioned above.
I'm I thinking about this correctly?
EIT
www.HowToEngineer.com
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
Top chord bearing blocks are usually made up of stacked lumber from what I've seen, the orientation generally promotes more shrinkage as it's perpendicular to grain as opposed to parallel to grain. The last web of a bottom chord bearing truss will see minimal shrinkage axially, and then normally only has the chords in perpendicular to grain orientation.
Therefore my argument is the shrinkage difference between top chord and bottom chord bearing wood trusses is neglible and I suspect depending on the depth of the top chord bearing block, the bottom chord bearing may result in less shrinkage.
That being said, I've normally done top chord bearing in that situation (albeit I haven't done wood taller than 3 storeys). That way the corridor joists can be 2x6s which is the same depth as the bearing block for the trusses under the suites. Then at the walls parallel to the trusses I provide a 2x6 rim joist and blocking to keep the bearing height the same all around. Another fun fact about 2x6 corridor joists, it provides a nice chase for mechanical and they just provide a dropped ceiling to match the u/s of trusses it ends up leaving almost an 18" deep for the entire width of the corridor.
Wow, kinda went off on a tangent on that one.
RE: Six Story Wood Frame Construction: Tips & Resources
A confused student is a good student.
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson, PE
www.medeek.com