british aircraft rivets from 1940s
british aircraft rivets from 1940s
(OP)
does anyone have a good reference on rivet types and installation for old British rivets (eg: AS156, AS161, etc.)? I have the rivet standards but they are somewhat lacking. Same goes for the SRM.
In particular anything that describes the process for normalizing rivets (eg: L37 material).
thanks
In particular anything that describes the process for normalizing rivets (eg: L37 material).
thanks





RE: british aircraft rivets from 1940s
Assume that I've never heard of these rivets before (which is true).
What do they look like?
Who manufactured them?
What aircraft were they used on?
What was the purpose of the rivet joints where they were used?
And most importantly....
Why do you want to use them?
STF
RE: british aircraft rivets from 1940s
I recall at my previous employer in the UK a little book - I think maybe a detail catalog from a hardware supplier - that had information on all kinds of rivets etc.
Sorry, not much help but might give an idea where to look i.e. old vendor literature or the like.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: british aircraft rivets from 1940s
This is for wing skin attachments on an old WW2 era British fighter (Tempest). Looks like we have what we needed now however. Will carry on to the next item.
RE: british aircraft rivets from 1940s
Check with the Paul Garber Restoration division of the Smithsonian. On a tour around that place a few years ago, a Docent told me they had contacts and access to rivets and other fasteners for most aircraft in their collection.
B.E.
You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.
RE: british aircraft rivets from 1940s
what size are these rivets ?
are there any calcs around (so we can see the allowable) ?
have you tried the historical societies ? (like the battle of Britian flight)
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: british aircraft rivets from 1940s
I assume you've contacted the RAF museum in Hendon (and it's satellites) and similar places?
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: british aircraft rivets from 1940s
L37 aluminum seems to be similar to 2014 alloy. But I have never seen the term "normalizing" used with aluminum materials. I've only seen it used with ferrous alloys.
Do you actually mean an annealed condition for the aluminum rivets?
RE: british aircraft rivets from 1940s
FAA has dealt with issue of obsolete parts/materials on 'Vintage" [classic/antique] acft and released an 'Advisory Circular' to provide guidance when restoring these acft and the 'old-stuff' simply is no-longer available... or is not reliable enough for modern airworthiness-concious aviators..
AC 23-27 Parts and Materials Substitution for Vintage Aircraft
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_... substitution
Also... I suspect that "normalizng aluminum" means solution heat-treat/quench/natural-aging to -T3/-T4 condition.
Regards, Wil Taylor
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RE: british aircraft rivets from 1940s
wktaylor- AC 23-27 provides guidance for the process of obtaining FAA approval for part and material substitutions when the original item is no longer available. A quick internet search seems to indicate the rivet in question (AS156) is still available. Per the OP, if there is no existing SRM or OEM documentation covering installation of the rivet in question, then AC 43.13-1B would probably be a better reference. Chapter 4, section 4 provides extensive details on how the FAA prefers to address these situations.
RE: british aircraft rivets from 1940s
STF
RE: british aircraft rivets from 1940s
I'm still trying to understand the British AP and AVP system, but AVP 970 contained materials strength information similar to ANC-5. It was somewhat of a living document with sections that were inserted or removed with revisions.
We managed to find Strength of Materials information (section 401) dated 1948 at the RAF museum in England. For rivet joint strength, we also now have section 405 (1963) which helps considerably. I'm still digging thru this and looking at material supersessions, etc.
The British rivets (eg: AS161, AS163, AS164, etc.) can be seen on www.lasaero.com. Some of them have a 120 deg countersunk head. I haven't purchased the spec for this yet (from www.IHS.com), but I understand the AS156 rivet is made from L37 which is listed in section 401 as having a basic shear strength of 16.2 tons/sq. in (32.4ksi).
From what I understand, the rivet "normalizing" heat treatment involves heat treat at 495 deg F and water quench followed by 4 days aging at room temperature. But I still haven't seen a process yet.
Will check out AC23-27.
Thanks all
RE: british aircraft rivets from 1940s
I downloaded many of the AVP 970 documents when they were published on the web years ago. The site seems to be gone, now. You are not the first to ask about these.
Sadly, I only downloaded Volumes 1 & 2 (airworthiness of aircraft and rotorcraft). I don't have Volume 4 to help you with. Maybe somebody else had the patience.
It's a bit generic, but Mil-R-47196 lays down the basis for common bucked-rivet installation practices. It won't point you at specific tools for a specific rivet head, though.
STF
RE: british aircraft rivets from 1940s
RE: british aircraft rivets from 1940s
RE: british aircraft rivets from 1940s
1 metric ton = 2204.6 lb
1 imperial 'long' ton 2240 lb
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: british aircraft rivets from 1940s