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compressing carbon monoxide

compressing carbon monoxide

(OP)
Hi guys i am looking into building a Wood gasifier for emergencies , powering the home and car etc I have started modeling my idea up but require some info on how to store carbon monoxide
With the imbert gasifier I want to build, it will give off hydrogen and carbon monoxide (with a bit of methane as well but not much)
What i want to do is cool the gasses and because hydrogen is lighter it will rise to the top and CO will sink and this way separate the fuels

I know that hydrogen isn't easy to store as it migrates(osmosis i think??) through the tank walls (probably use it for water heating) but carbon monoxide should be ok (in tanks away from the house)save it for backup generator or BBQ run my car etc (I have some other ideas as well).
what i want to know is this.
Is it advisable to use a standard compressor or something a bit safer? Maybe with brass piston and rings to reduce sparks
What temperature would be a good guide for the gasses to separate reliably prior to compression?
What pressure is ideal for carbon monoxide storage?
Thanks in advance
Any and all advice is welcome

RE: compressing carbon monoxide

There are published guidelines (IAPA, OSHA) on storage of CO and material (in)compatibility.
Cameron manufactures series of CO compressors. Their website might be a good starting point.

Dejan IVANOVIC
Process Engineer, MSChE

RE: compressing carbon monoxide

Unlike liquids, gasses are so light and their molecules are moving so fast and so far between collisions, they don't separate "cleanly" (distinctly) when mixed together - even if left still and undisturbed for relatively long periods of time. You'll more likely get "hevier mix" in the bottom, and medium mix in the middle, and the lighter - but still not very pure mix up at the top.

H2 is 2.0 molecular weight obviously, but CO isn't much heavier - compared to the very large carbon string and loop compounds.

RE: compressing carbon monoxide

(OP)
Thanks guys for the info
RAcookpe do you know at what temperature C0 condenses out of the air? I think its something like -192 degs is this right?

RE: compressing carbon monoxide

Boiling point of pure component is -191.5 degC.

Dejan IVANOVIC
Process Engineer, MSChE

RE: compressing carbon monoxide

The point saying is that by cooling the air-CO mixture to -192 degC (e.g. at atmospheric pressure) you won't be able to recover pure CO as liquid and there will be significant quantity of CO in the residual gas/vapor. Mixtures behave different than pure components.

Dejan IVANOVIC
Process Engineer, MSChE

RE: compressing carbon monoxide

You do know that CO apart from being heavier than air is also toxic, no smell, no color and once you are sufficiently exposed not even exposure to atmospheric air may save you? more than 200 persons die in the US pr year due to carbon monoxide poisoning associated with home fuel-burning heating equipment alone! Each year, more than 500 Americans die from unintentional carbon monoxide poisoning, and more than 2,000 commit suicide by intentionally poisoning themselves.

RE: compressing carbon monoxide

Based, on the original question, I think the OP does not consider himself being in the last category spineyes

Dejan IVANOVIC
Process Engineer, MSChE

RE: compressing carbon monoxide

(OP)
MortenA Thanks for the concern and yes I understand the dangers that's why I plan for the gas bottles to be stored outside away from the House. Its also the other reason I plan for the gas to be mixed with CNG on the way to my BBQ ( on which I cooked An excellent Steak eggs and Mushroom meal last night)so i will be able to smell any leaks .

Racookpe Thanks for the info the "Heavier" mix would be what I was after

RE: compressing carbon monoxide

Sojournerman,

Interesting idea, but quite frankly for a "domestic" set=up, there is no way you will make a separation system work, but you could possibly compress your gas, then via a cooler into gas bottles of some sort.

Even this you may exceed the energy released in the energy used to compress the gas, never mind industrial cooling plant.

Sometimes at small scale it just doesn't work out the way you want.

For your BBQ it would be easier to make charcoal from the wood rather than turning it into gas.

For everything else I hope your property is a long way from anyone else's as the chances of a large explosion one night seem quite large to me.....

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

RE: compressing carbon monoxide

(OP)
Hi Littleinch
Im in a town but am looking to buy some ground next door with which I can build a garden and a shed and do some home power generation (no I'm not a "prepper") but am not willing to pay increasing power bills every month .
I like your point about the cooling probably not being cost effective (was thinking that it wouldn't be particularly practical).
I was asking the question as I know that hydrogen weakens steel and with syn gas (the gas released when wood is burnt in a very low oxygen environment) there is a a lot of h2 released
so storing it has that problem

RE: compressing carbon monoxide

I took a dip into this to see what came up.

It seems wood gas has a very low energy level compared to "normal" gas and you use a lot of the energy in the gas just to compress it to some pretty low pressures- 100 psi.

This paper http://scialert.net/fulltext/?doi=jas.2010.406.412... gives some numbers.

This guy and his answers spells it out.

There is a lot of info on this out there and the consensus is that with all impurities and issues (water, tar, not much energy), just burn the stuff as you need it. Compressing any gas, especially hydrogen has serious safety implications and I doubt your insurance will cover you.

Bear in mind you also need to source the wood, feed the brute, clean it, rake the ash out, adapt all your gas burning equipment....

All sounds good and healtyh but I wouldn't want to become a slave to a gas burner when I can just turn the switch on.

Far better to become more efficient in your use of energy, install some solar panels, burn logs in a wood burner in the winter (more efficient than open fire) and enjoy life.

Just a thought....

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

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