Sprinklers above a suspended ceiling when ceiling does not cover room?
Sprinklers above a suspended ceiling when ceiling does not cover room?
(OP)
Out of control architect: An open office space with partial suspended ceiling (or very large ceiling clouds). One space has a suspended ceiling for about 80% with three areas open to the deck above. The other has maybe 70% ceiling at different levels (picture a rectangle with a 9’ ceiling in the middle covering say 50%, 3’ open, then a rectangle ring 4’ wide at 8’, then maybe 3’ open around the outside.
The space above the ceiling is all non-combustible.
Do we need to treat it as open space with sprinklers at the deck and also in the ceiling (treat the ceilings like clouds)?
The space above the ceiling is all non-combustible.
Do we need to treat it as open space with sprinklers at the deck and also in the ceiling (treat the ceilings like clouds)?





RE: Sprinklers above a suspended ceiling when ceiling does not cover room?
You sprinkler the roof as if exposed. The clouds then fall under the greater than 4'-0" rule.
When it gets fun is when there is only 6" between the clouds. Same rules apply.
R/
Matt
RE: Sprinklers above a suspended ceiling when ceiling does not cover room?
1st, start with the premise that all areas of a building must be provided with sprinkler protection. Then, you can go to the exemptions that allow sprinklers to be omitted. One of these is non-combustible concealed spaces. Because your ceilings aren't 100% coverage of the room, the space above the ceiling is no longer concealed.
Again, as Matt said, these fall under the 4' rule to require sprinklers under them.
Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC
www.mfpdesign.com
"Follow" us at https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/9221...
RE: Sprinklers above a suspended ceiling when ceiling does not cover room?
The testing report is available @ NFPA.org. A simple search of "Ceiling Clouds and Fire Sprinklers" will get you there.
In a nutshell, there are some allowances that will be investigated to allow omission of the sprinklers above the cloud.
As of now though, they are obstructions plain and simple.
R/
Matt
RE: Sprinklers above a suspended ceiling when ceiling does not cover room?
A 100' X 100' area with ceiling. There is a 34' X 28' opening (not exactly in the middle of the space)with a 26' X 20' cloud in the middle of the opening. Do I sprinkler the entire space above the ceiling? Even say 35' away from the opening?
Common sense is breaking down.
RE: Sprinklers above a suspended ceiling when ceiling does not cover room?
If you can see above it, then it is Not concealed.
This was also a consideration when you could look from the stockroom of a store, and see above the ceiling over the shopping aisles.
I would think however, using the report, you maybe could ask for a variance from your approving authority. Maybe spacing sprinklers around the opening to keep the ceiling cool where heat may gather.
There are instances in 13 of this being done around isolated combustible concealed in section 8.15. The report helps identify the actions of the heat/fire.
Interestingly enough, the fire plume skews due to the effects of the cloud.
Also, if you were to build a non-combustible "box" around the large opening, out of sight, then maybe that could be considered as "Non-Combustible Concealed Space".
The entire trick is to ensure the sprinkler is located in the heat.
R/
Matt
RE: Sprinklers above a suspended ceiling when ceiling does not cover room?
Matt is dead on. As of today, you sprinkle that entire space above. I have done jobs where the architect wanted the exposed industrial look in a corridor so they didn't put a ceiling in that area. It opened to about 75' of office in each direction. We were required to put sprinklers at the deck level throughout the entire floor. The architect would not budge on running the corridor walls to the deck so the rest of the area was concealed.
Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC
www.mfpdesign.com
"Follow" us at https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/9221...
RE: Sprinklers above a suspended ceiling when ceiling does not cover room?
BTW- a solution is to run a vertical soffit from the cloud to the deck and paint it black. I know just what the other designer is talking about though, I did an office area in a 42' clear warehouse, they put in three levels of slanted clouds, none of them intersected each other but 90% of the floor area was obstructed from protection at the roof deck level. We installed hard pipe drops, some went through a higher cloud to get to a lower cloud, and in the end all the clouds had fire sprinkler protection below them.
RE: Sprinklers above a suspended ceiling when ceiling does not cover room?
You might look at 8.15.22 nfpa 13 2010 edition
RE: Sprinklers above a suspended ceiling when ceiling does not cover room?
RE: Sprinklers above a suspended ceiling when ceiling does not cover room?
It allows you to limit the entire system above. But there are stipulations...
8.15.22.3* Where there is a noncombustible space above a
noncombustible or limited-combustible drop ceiling that is
sprinklered because it is open to an adjacent sprinklered
space on only one side and where there is no possibility for
storage above the drop ceiling, the sprinkler system shall be
permitted to extend only as far into the space as 0.6 times the
square root of the design area of the sprinkler system in the
adjacent space.
R/
Matt
RE: Sprinklers above a suspended ceiling when ceiling does not cover room?
The picture in the Annex clearly indicates the intent of that referenced section.
Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC
www.mfpdesign.com
"Follow" us at https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/9221...
RE: Sprinklers above a suspended ceiling when ceiling does not cover room?
PW located in the heart of America-
Fire sprinkler contracting since 1978
NICET and ICC certified
RE: Sprinklers above a suspended ceiling when ceiling does not cover room?
If an owner finds a convenient cubby hole, it will be used. But we as contractors must follow the minimum unless we are brought in at the concept stage. (My what an interesting Unicorn...)
R/
Matt
RE: Sprinklers above a suspended ceiling when ceiling does not cover room?
RE: Sprinklers above a suspended ceiling when ceiling does not cover room?
Perhaps we should start with the question, " Are you a member of the Eng-Tip Tech Forum?"
If the answer is no, move on...
R/
Matt