Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
(OP)
Hello everyone
I know this has probably been asked before but I find myself in a peculiar situation. I was in the process of hiring a Senior Welding Inspector to review and re-write our welding procedures but my boss has just informed me that "a janitor" can write WPS and QPR's. I know AWS states only a SWI can do this, but I can't find anything in API 1104 to support this requirement. Does anyone know where I can find some information in CFR 192 or API 1104? She states it's not a federal or state requirement. HELP
I know this has probably been asked before but I find myself in a peculiar situation. I was in the process of hiring a Senior Welding Inspector to review and re-write our welding procedures but my boss has just informed me that "a janitor" can write WPS and QPR's. I know AWS states only a SWI can do this, but I can't find anything in API 1104 to support this requirement. Does anyone know where I can find some information in CFR 192 or API 1104? She states it's not a federal or state requirement. HELP





RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
Does API have its own, stand alone, welding code, or do they refer to AWS or ASME as the primary welding std. and then provide some exceptions and additions to the that stds? In any case, they would likely be industry stds. and codes of some sort. Google CFR 192, then scroll down to sub part 192.225 and see if that leads you anywhere. There are a whole group of welding sub parts there. I’d send the boss a request to hire the janitor, at his/her suggestion, to rewrite the welding handbook, and let er fly. This just seems to prove once again what little knowledge, understanding and respect many company’s managements have for what real engineers actually do. If the general public only knew that this kind of thinking actually goes on in pipeline companies, and by their management monkeys, they would all be clamoring to have a pipeline in their own back yards. There’s plenty of good reasons to recommend pipelines as a means of transport, but this kind of quality and safety thinking ought to be grounds for dismissal.
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
How many welders have to "adjust" the WPS they were given to make a good weld?
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
I have seen some erroneously written WPSs that, if fully employed, could not produce a weld in the materials to be welded.
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
Also, I think AWS requires WPS' for all welds, not just welds to be qualified (I'm at home with a beer so I can't get to my D1 right now.)
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
when you say Senior Welding Inspector, i assume you mean SCWI (Senior Certified Welding Inspector).... and not just going to the old folks home to find a welding inspector. If you want to hire one to write your procedures, get a consultant... that alone wouldn't merit a full-time staff. Now if you are talking about hiring a QC manager with a CWI, that is a much different story.... but the procedures is sidework.
When it comes to Welder Certs, i've seen many that are certified by people that wouldn't know where to start to complete the form or inspect the weld. We regularly received coupons to test, which we would generate the documentation for. For most welds, the person who signs the cert doesn't need to know much else about welding except to tell if the person is using the right materials and is in position. otherwise, they're most important job is to document that the welder indeed welded it alone, and is responsible to maintain a clean chain of custody of the coupon until delivery for inspection.
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
A well written WPS provides the information the welder needs to properly set up and deposit weld that meet the mechanical properties of the code in a consistent manner. That is the purpose of the document, to provide direct to the welder.
I can't not tell you how many times I receive telephone calls from someone that ask, "We just qualified a WPS; where do I find the voltage, amperage, wire feed speed, flow rate, etc. so I can fill in the blanks?"
Just because a person passes the CWI exam is no assurance they know all there is to know about welding no more than a 16 year old that just passed their driver's test is ready to drive in the Grand Prix. Passing the CWI examination means the individual knows the basics of visual weld inspection. No more no less. There is a lot to learn before one can say they have a good understanding of the ins and outs of inspecting welds, writing WPSs, and learning how to organize and properly document the procedure qualification effort.
A comment like, "Anyone can do it." is akin to saying, "Anyone one can weld. I can hire 20 off the street tomorrow." To that I say there are a lot of rod burners, but few welders.
As I see it is the CWI examination does little to prepare one to develop welding documentation. The driver's license doesn't prepare the drive to be a mechanic. With a little additional training and experience, the newly minted CWI can write a good WPS and the newly minted drive can learn to be a mechanic, but only if there is a desire to pick up the books and read and only if one is to work with a mentor to learn the proper way to write the WPS, document the procedure qualification or tear down and rebuild an engine.
Best regards - Al
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
"As I see it is the CWI examination does little to prepare one to develop welding documentation."
WPS, PQRs, WPQRs make up a small percentage of the overall questions. A CWI who struggles should still be able to get those questions narrowed down to 2 choices and have a decent chance of passing if the examinee is strong in fundamentals of welding, basic metallurgy, and code for the other questions on the exam.
I want to add a little nuance to this comment for the other readers....
"Passing the CWI examination means the individual knows the basics of visual weld inspection."
Visual weld inspection is a separate test. you have to pass each of the tests separately to pass the exam. Fundamentals of Welding (closed book), Visual Inspection (open-book with tools), and Code of choice (open-book).... That said... notice there is no test dedicated to handling welding documentation. Welding documentation is buried inside the 3 exams, but as said what matters is pass/fail.
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
However, your boss (I will call him an idiot here so you don't have to) is highlighting the biggest problem faced by actual welding engineers: it is the most heavily poached specialty there is, not just by amateurs but by other engineers. You see, everybody and his aunt knows a little about welding. But as a wise man once said, "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing." Especially VERY little knowledge.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
I may have inadvertently contributed to the OP's problems.
I posted previously (not sure if on here or another forum) that anyone, even a janitor can witness the PQR test, document a PQR or formulate a WPS.
However, the question posted was who is permitted by the code to perform these duties. (ASME IX was the subject code).
The code only stipulates an employee of the "Organisation".
Anyone with the slightest of welding knowledge can witness the PQR test and document the results but a WPS mustbe written by a competent person with sufficient knowledge / experience.
"However, your boss (I will call him an idiot here so you don't have to) is highlighting the biggest problem faced by actual welding engineers: it is the most heavily poached specialty there is, not just by amateurs but by other engineers. You see, everybody and his aunt knows a little about welding. But as a wise man once said, "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing." Especially VERY little knowledge."
Agree totally with comments from brimstoner and Al,
Cheers,
DD
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
ASME provides little direction to a "newby" attempting to write a "good" WPS.
Consider: Per ASME Section IX, the contractor is not required to record the welding parameters used to weld the test coupon on the PQR. So, the newby does not both to witness the welding and no one bothers to record voltage, currant, wire feed speed, travel speed, etc. These variables are nonessential variables per Section IX, thus do not have to be recorded on the PQR.
Now the newby is tasked with writing the WPS. The welding parameters, defined as nonessential variables, must be addressed on the WPS per Section IX. The newby, not being a welder, not being a welding engineer, but qualified as a truck driver, janitor, or corporate CEO, fills in the blanks of the WPS form: Voltage: 0 to 240, Amperage: 0 to 300 amps, Wire Feed Speed: 0 to 1200 ipm, Travel Speed: As required. The requirements of ASME Section IX have been satisfied and the welder properly places the WPS next to the toilet bowl. The WPS now occupies its rightful place in the world in which we live.
Best regards - Al
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
The root problem is management viewing QA as a toilet paper exercise. Something that permits you to do your business. My aim in writing a WPS is to make it reflect the reality of the task, to meet or exceed the contract requirements, to be as flexible as possible, and to design it so I don't have to requalify in one year's time.
In one previous lifetime I inherited a WPS catalog that had a simple carbon steel pipe WPS qualified at least four times over about 15 years, each at progressively lower Charpy test temperatures. I had to requalify it again just to add hardness testing, which would have been a cheap addition to the previous PQR. Stupid.
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
I am still fighting an uphill battle and am down to my last grenade so please tell me if I'm on the right track here....
My boss has stated that a "janitor" can write an WPS because "CFR 192 and API 1104 do not mention anything about minimum qualifications for writing and WPS"..... so here is my last grenade...
API 1004 4.2.1 (Pipe and Piping Components) states:
"This standard applies to the welding of pipe and piping components that conform to material and products specifications including, but not limited to:
e) American National Standards Institute (ANSI) specifications
Soooooo...... AWS IS an ANSI Standard therefore the AWS requirement as stated in ASW B5.1:2013, Section 4 (table 1) does apply! Only a certified SWI is qualified to write welding procedures.
Think that will fly????
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
meant API 1104.. not API 1004
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
Best regards - Al
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
Additionally, having a specification outlining limitations of inspectors is not a carte blanche nod to meaning that all WPS's and PQR's must be written by an SWI, when the applicable Code of Construction/Fabrication does not invoke such a requirement.
My office policy says my facial hair must be neat and trim. Does that mean I can't shave my beard in the morning because the state cosmetology board has minimum requirements on what it takes to be a barber?
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
Again, thank you all for all your help
Soooo... Looks like I can add "Janitor" to my resume. But you can bet that I'm going to do the best I can.... Quick question:
I have everything I think I need to begin writing new WPS... but I'm having trouble with the Heat Input value after I calculate it. Example:
12" API 5L, X42 pipe, butt & fillet welding (12.75" OD, .375" WT). I can calculate the Heat Input per pass... but what do I do with this number???
Sorry for being such a pest, just trying to make sure I do a good job
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
forgot to add.. Following API 1104
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
Demand a raise if they make you sign as the Chief Engineer.
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
By the way your boss is wrong regarding PQR per ASME IX.
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
About the only individual that cannot sign a WPS, PQR, or WPTR, and the only individual that cannot witness the welder qualification or witness the welding of the test coupon (for the PQR), is an AWS CAWI (as prohibited by AWS QC1-2007).
Best regards - Al
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's
"If you don't have time to do the job right the first time, when are you going to find time to repair it?"
RE: Requirments for writing WPS and PQR's