Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
(OP)
Good afternoon guys. I would like to hear from you supervisors and lead engineers on your ideas on training young engineers on soft skills. As you all know, the most difficult and most frustrating part by far of the real working world is working with other people. Also, as you all know, being technically proficient will only get you so far in the world.
In engineering school, students are largely isolated from this until perhaps their senior design seminar during which they are put on a small team to develop a project. Upon graduation, they get out in the real world and find out pretty quick that real life in industry ain’t too much like college, and one finds oneself unprepared for this reality thus forcing the learning of soft skills by hard knocks and OJT.
Some example “soft skills” might be these (a short list):
• How to communicate effectively with others
• How to select the best communication vehicle for a message, e.g. email, verbal, phone call, etc.
• How to manage your supervisor
• How to get work done by people over whom you have no direct reporting authority
• How to know when to cc your boss on emails and when you don’t need to
• How to work with other people who have communication styles different from your own
Just wondering how you all have managed this, if at all. Maybe hard knocks is the only way? I guess I could buy them all a copy of “How to Win Friends and Influence People” and The Golden Rule, as a starting point. I might still do that.
Thanks guys! Pete
In engineering school, students are largely isolated from this until perhaps their senior design seminar during which they are put on a small team to develop a project. Upon graduation, they get out in the real world and find out pretty quick that real life in industry ain’t too much like college, and one finds oneself unprepared for this reality thus forcing the learning of soft skills by hard knocks and OJT.
Some example “soft skills” might be these (a short list):
• How to communicate effectively with others
• How to select the best communication vehicle for a message, e.g. email, verbal, phone call, etc.
• How to manage your supervisor
• How to get work done by people over whom you have no direct reporting authority
• How to know when to cc your boss on emails and when you don’t need to
• How to work with other people who have communication styles different from your own
Just wondering how you all have managed this, if at all. Maybe hard knocks is the only way? I guess I could buy them all a copy of “How to Win Friends and Influence People” and The Golden Rule, as a starting point. I might still do that.
Thanks guys! Pete





RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
I do a lot of teaching of young folks now. I was getting savaged on my evaluations, so I researched "Teaching Millenials & Generation Z-ers". Great insights were gained and I overhauled my entire teaching style & expectations. Summary of findings:
- All the gray-beards are totally screwed. Check back in 20 years to see if my opinion changes like all the other previous-generation doomsayers about them young whippersnappers. I wonder if it will.
- They've never been without internet/email/social media. This is how they learn/research/communicate. They influence other's behavior by flinging nasty comments (like on Facebook et al.)
- email & books are so 90's...get with it Grandpa...why read when I can Google / YouTube anything I need to know?
- Teamwork...they've been steeped in this since kindergarten. Never a problem. It's an amazing thing to see in action. No color, no disability, no creed...completely open socially.
- Padded playgrounds, bike helmets, and helicopter parents have protected them. They do not understand consequence.
- Entitled. I pay my tuition, you owe me. You hired me with the title of engineer, you owe me a fabulous lifestyle.
- Dedication & loyalty are for losers & dinosaurs. Let's go surfing.
- Technology: absolutely no fear. Dive in the deep end without testing the waters first. What's the worst that could happen?
- Mobile phones are so ingrained in their persona that telling them not to use it is like telling them not to use their right hand.
- Much more. See for yourself.
- When the grid goes dark and the zombies come out of hiding, these precious darlings will be dog food.
I try my best to influence these young people into the type of person I would want to hire. It's a darn tough job, though. It starts with the fundamental things (as related by our Advisory Board members) with such things as "teach them to show up on time" and "teach them to stay off their phones." I keep saying we're doomed if THESE are the ones that will be wiping the drool off my chin in the nursing home. Cynical, I know. But I sure hope I'm surprised.TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering
www.bluetechnik.com
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
Buy them Sliding rule. And turn off electricity, this way they won't have opinions.
"For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert"
Arthur C. Clarke Profiles of the future
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
We heard this preaching about the generation just before this one and their "special needs"- how they need to be mollycoddled or else they'll leave, or how entitled they are etc. I hire young engineers and train them, and do not experience this sort of crap- at all. Nobody brings their mommy in to negotiate salary when they sign on. They're just as smart, independent, resourceful and loyal as kids ever were. Yes, they have a different work style and way of thinking because they were raised with different tools: just like I have never used a slide rule and hence any old guy who did can whip my ass with his knowledge of logarithms. With each new tool, some old skills die. So it goes. I don't doubt your teaching experience- I'm sure if I was being "evaluated" by these kids, they would find me lacking in many, many ways...
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
Good luck,
Latexman
Technically, the glass is always full - 1/2 air and 1/2 water.
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
Great post. One of the things I have seen with quite a few young engineers who are overly steeped in teamwork (not all of them are) is their inability to work alone when that is required or even to think independent thoughts.
Another thing, the current generation seems to value relationships far more than career advancement. Few of them seem willing to invest their own time to learn more than is expected, let alone work more than is expected, because it reduces their quality of life. (Heck, I'm 56 and still learn on my own time.) I have seen very few young engineers willing to work even 41 hours per week. For most, it's in at exactly 8:00 a.m. and out at exactly 5:00 p.m. Unfortunately, the deadline-driven world that I live in doesn't usually permit this. The standouts among the young engineers I know are willing to learn on their own and to put in extra hours, but not so much as to ruin their life.
moltenmetal…
Another great post. You said, "With each new tool, some old skills die." I fully agree and don't have any problem with that. However, I do have a problem when understanding fundamental concepts dies with the old skills. Too many young engineers believe anything the computer spits out because they don't know GIGO. When I train young engineers, I make them do some simple calculations by hand so I can judge their level of understanding. hen I think they are ready, then I show them how we really do with a computer.
As an aside, several years ago a younger co-worker asked me for advice on how to help his 7th grader learn logarithms. I suggested buying a slide rule. He asked, "What's a slide rule?" I explained what a slide rule was and why I though it might help his son see what a logarithm looked like (i.e. how it plots on a scale) and see how they function (in the same way that teachers used to use a sliding number line to teach addition and subtraction). Then I showed him the slide rule I keep at the office (mostly for fun) and showed him how it worked. After buying his first one, he got so interested that he started collecting slide rules. (BTW, I went through the transition from slide rule to scientific calculator and was the first person at my high school to a programmable calculator, an HP-55. I have never shied away from adding technology, but I refuse to let understanding things get cast aside.)
==========
"Is it the only lesson of history that mankind is unteachable?"
--Winston S. Churchill
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
Go over the org chart to identify people they can trust and go to and those they can't
Review and edit their emails/memos and explain why changes are needed and why word choices matter until they can create a decent email/memo on their own
Assign benign tasks early on to confirm 'they get it' before assigning more significant tasks
I've also compiled a list of 'what they don't teach you in school' articles that I pass down occasionally
One-on-one feedback sessions monthly that are not project specific but rather focus on the soft skills
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
They aren't failing us. It's us who are failing them.
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
B.E.
You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
It's the 2015 Gold Medal Address from Istructe (Link)
But... it always comes back to "rubbish in, rubbish out."
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
The microwave oven did not come along until I was 25. The First domestic one Was the Amada Radarange. There were a few industrial ones before that from when I was a teenager. They cost a large fortune and did not interest the general public very much. My father sold Electrolux Vacuum cleaners, but sales were few and far between. We also sold television sets, Black and white, that cost 7 months wages to buy, they both were too expensive for the average Joe blow. The first Color set did not come along until I was 20 years old and it was still bloody expensive. The coffee maker was called a percolator and sat on the stove for 15 or 20 minutes until the coffee was done. Helicopters and muscle cars were outside my price range.
The items I mentioned in my post are in everyday use by todays generation, and the generation before that. And like I said if you take them away people would be seriously inconvenienced if not lost.
B.E.
You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
It is not a case of adapting your situation to survive. Whilst the younger generation has NEVER not had the items I mentioned and most likely would not know what to do without them, the fact is that these tools come easily to hand for them. The hand calculation you were disparaging earlier was just about all we had, the closest thing to the automation we have today was the 10 key calculator and the slide rule. Non the less, the younger generation now comes in being able to use these tools from grade school on, but in the process loses A respect for hierarchy and basic manners , this is what is taught in soft skills. Now this is nothing new Shakespeare was complaining about it in his plays in the 1500s
B.E.
You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
As a chem eng/metallurgist the first part of any answer I give starts with "It Depends"
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
I value my family (and alone) time, but I do not stop learning. That said, I also attempt to limit my self-learning time to an amount that won't interfere with the bigger priority, family and ME. I wouldn't call that a failing, I would call it learning to prioritize and setting reasonable boundaries.
I don't fault someone (young or old) for walking out of the door when the clock hits 40 hours, as long a I respect the amount of work they've put in during those 40 hours. Some leeway should be given for the team, so big projects aren't left languishing over the weekend, but that should not be a common practice (and that goes back to earlier threads about companies biting off more than they can chew, forcing the workforce to take up the slack). Some are driven to work 80 hours a week (my brother did that for many, many years... and stopped when he realized the effect it was having on his family). That's not me.
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
As a recovered workaholic I know that excessive work is an addiction, and like most addictions its autocatalytic.
As to the assertion that this generation sees more value in relationships than in advancement, I'd call bollocks on that. People still value both, and which they value varies more from person to person than from generation to generation by FAR.
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
The written skills of many Engineers, both young and old, also need honing.
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
As a young engineer mid 20's), I would rather be more efficient than work more hours. Where I work, I am given deadlines, I meet all the deadlines and only work 40 hours a week, no more, no less (I wish I could work less, but company policy states I cant leave even if all my work is done).
to respond to tygerdawg:
white-beards: For all the older generation of engineers. I take what they say with questions, even though you have more years on me, does not mean you know the answer. I have been in many situations where I asked "why" to the senior engineer, and the only answer I got was " because that is how we do it". I don't know about you, but as an engineer shouldn't that answer bug you.
Technology/facebook: you are making an assumption on an entire generation on just the few vocal people on facebook. That is upsetting.
google: As for the internet/technology. Why not use it. why memorize logs/arithmetic when you have almost all knowledge at your finger tips. Saves space in the brain. Now don't get me wrong, you should know where the math comes from, the way I know the computer is right, is because I have a general idea of what the number should be. if I get a number that is far from what I was expecting then I go through and double check everything. I feel it is a way to get the solution quicker.
teamwork: yup we do it a lot. we are taught that no matter what you do, you need a team. Even look at the solo engineer. he might design the part, but who makes the part" who assembles the part? who sells the part? it takes a team to get something to market or even fix a problem.
Padded playgrounds: because of the way I grew up, I have not experiences padded playgrounds and helicopter parents. As for the bike helmet, they are do saves lives. I am not sure why you added that one.
entitlement: This is something I can rant on for a long time and not on the same side as you. But from my own experience, If I did not earn it, I dont get it. That simple.
dedication and loyalty: the company is not loyal to you, so why should you be loyal to them. If the business starts going down, guess what, expected to be canned. I was let go from a company I worked for, for about 3 years, when they hit hard times, it was me and another engineer who was there for 15 years. Company hit hard times, let us go. So where is the loyalty?
Technology/fear: if you know what the technologies does, why should you have fear? Why not push the boundaries of the technology. if you don't try, you don't learn. If you fail, then you learn more.
mobile phones: I have pretty much more recorded knowledge at my finger tips. is that really a bad thing to instantly look up information that I need to do my job? its a lot faster then trying to flip through a book. you don't even need to find the book. Also with this should come with some basic internet searching knowledge on what is a reliable and unreliable source ( which is taught in school).
Zombies: depending on the location you live in will really determine on whether or not you live. in a city area, you are dead, more of the country area, higher chance of living.
I have had to listen to many people say how my generation is going to mess things up and all that jazz. Which honestly is pretty aggravating. but that is my 2 sense.
As with the original post. After I finished collage, I see that I should have taken a few communication classes. It would have helped.
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
I had an engineer start working for me straight from school. We also had a purchasing agent who would come by the engineering office every 3 or 4 months with a list of components that for one reason or another appeared to contain duplicate vendor part numbers. The purchasing agent would ask for help sorting this out so I would assign this new engineer to do this. New engineer couldn't undersand why the purchaing agent was not smart enough to figure this out on his own, why he had to waste his time helping, not what he got a degree for, who cares if he orders the same part under a different part number and so on.
"Engineers need to make their documentation clear to the end users. somehow we are making this purhcasing agents difficult; help him out and fix it" - ehich he begrudingly did, and did again 3 months after that and after that.
Fast forward a year - new engineer releases a design, gets into production and doesn't work. Needs a new component. Who is the purchasing agent for the componet? The guy new engineer helps out every 3 months. New component gets ordered, expedited in next day (instead of usual leadtime), without the usual 'engineering screwed up' fanfare the typically accompanied such events.
The look on new engineer's face was priceless - at that moment he understood the value of building good relationships
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
Hindsight is 20/20, and the inexperienced don't know what they don't know. The wise will realize this fact and listen/learn. The unwise will sneer down their noses at the "old codgers who are too stupid to be here." I've related the story before, so I won't do it again, but I sat (uncomfortably) by while a young coworker proclaimed (at length and in a very loud voice) to me how a current design was piss poor in umpteenth ways. Of course, the original designer was sitting two cubes away, let him rant, then proceeded to inform him of how the decisions that were made long ago were still affecting the current designs. the sun does shine on a dog's butt once a day, and sometimes a greenhorn full of piss and vinegar will have a groundbreaking idea... but it's tough to recognize it when they're so full of themselves they think all of the old ideas are bunk without understanding WHY the old ideas have lasted so long. Arrogance. It's either lost by experience, or it's beaten out of you.
I don't believe anyone is saying ignore technology, but you seem to be missing the point. You admit you have a general idea of what the number should be, which means you understand the foundations of the calculation. This is what we mean. Without an understanding of the foundation, the numbers coming out of a computer are meaningless. Having a sense of value matters. More and more often the white-beards are finding employees who do NOT have the proper foundation, so they are making mistakes that are not caught early on. Entering the diameter of rebar in inches rather than millimeters will lead to erroneous results... but without a sense of what the final number should be, that's easily missed by a greenhorn. Use the computer... but use it responsibly, and understand what it's telling you. That's all that's being asked for.
And every generation is aggravated by the one before... and will be aggravated by the one after. cycle of life, I wouldn't let it get you down. You'll be at the other end of the rope one day, and then it will make a certain amount of sense. It comes with experience
Other than that, I tend to agree with most of your other points.
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
with the whole, "thats how we do it", when I asked why, the senior engineer and the coworkers where not able to answer that. so I saw it as a, we are unwilling to change because this works and we are too lazy to look into other ways. I really enjoy learning and understanding why things are they way they are. I can not just accept " thats how we do it" because I see that as we have given up. now if you can explain why we do it that way, even if its as simple as " management said so" then that is an answer, that an answer I will enjoy, but still an answer.
as for the the young engineer and arrogance, I think I have a good idea where that came from. In school, we were taught we (engineers) are the best. we make the world spin, with out us, the world crumbles. So match that with a 20's mind set. Egos will get inflated really quickly.
Maybe all of this was just from aggravation about my generalization and people assuming I will follow suit. which I hope I am not.
as for when I get older and have the younger generation aggravated at me, better practices my yelling of "GET OFF MY LAWN" =)
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
I could argue about the books being non-negotiable, they do put out revisions and change values, but that is just me being a pain in the butt =). I do have books on my desk also, but I have found its a lot faster to get the info from the internet than from the book. I feel the quicker you get the info, the sooner you can finish a project and move on.
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
How do you figure?
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
Books are non-negotiable because you can use them as a solid resource (like the aisc code) rather than say "well I looked this up on the internet".
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
I set the expectation early that the soft skills are needed
Go over the org chart to identify people they can trust and go to and those they can't
Review and edit their emails/memos and explain why changes are needed and why word choices matter until they can create a decent email/memo on their own
Assign benign tasks early on to confirm 'they get it' before assigning more significant tasks
I've also compiled a list of 'what they don't teach you in school' articles that I pass down occasionally
One-on-one feedback sessions monthly that are not project specific but rather focus on the soft skills
Thanks for the hard info brother; exactly what I was looking for.
My challenge is to make S.M.A.R.T. goals out of the above that the younglings can use to know they are moving in the right direction and to help me gauge their improvement as their mentor/lead.
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
That struck me as a potentially dangerous and unwise bit of advice.
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
Admit it or not, we learned everything from working, from our experiences on every project. We grow old and we get better.
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
Perhaps "can't trust" is not the proper terminology. Maybe if it read "identify people who can be expected to provide pertinent information to helping your career versus those who are more concerned with merely solving their own problems." Not as reactive a statement, but does help separate the folk who can truly help you versus the ones who are simply there to do their own job.
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
You are both correct in that a review of the org chart shouldn't be used to project my own beliefs about a person into another person's head and 'trust' probably wasn't a good word.
I use the org chart to differentiate between the figure heads and those that actually make the organization run; to identify people with specific skill sets that would prove useful
Good catch and clarification
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
minus the org chart point, I feel if this was covered not only in collage but also in high school, it would have benefited greatly. the only thing I might add is how to write a progression document for a project, so that anyone will know what point you are at in the project, what came in, what have been implemented etc. That is something in my work I need to do often just in case I either leave or get sick, someone else can pick up where I left off with little set back.
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
When it starts taking up too much time, change the response to "sure, just run it by my boss first." Initially, everyone will appreciate your help and your time. Once availability of your time is restricted, that appreciation suddenly turns into value. These are two VERY different concepts, and it took me about 6 years to figure that out. It took my first employer another 2 years (and multiple direct explanations) but they didn't get it until the last day of my 2 week notice, which of course was too late.
The basic premise of a career is to continually increase the value of your time. Of course a major part of that is building skills, an equal part is building relationships and getting other people to recognize those skills.
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
Oh the contradictions and irony of posting in this thread.
KernOily - you are asking earnest and thoughtful questions without whining or bragging. That in of itself is an EXCELLENT base for developing good soft skills. The bad news - a lot of the answers to those questions are not deterministic in nature, i.e. you are going to have to live through various human interactions, make mistakes, adjust and try again.
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
Just a retired EE, who became a computer geek when he grew up, and now posts primarily in Tek-Tips and occasionally here.
"What we have here is a failure to communicate," for you Cool Hand Luke fans.
I'd recommend that such youths join a local Toastmasters club, where they will be strongly encouraged and trained in the art of communication. They'll get lots of peer review feedback from a cross section of the community. It's a great training ground and test bed for honing at least the speaking part of communication, that should bleed over into the written arena.
Skip,
Just traded in my OLD subtlety...
for a NUance!
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
" 90% of your financial success will be due to your communication skills, 10% due to your technical competency."
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
Meetings are a good place to gather data for sketching it out, with an interpersonal interaction graph. Draw the seating arrangement, with initials. When someone speaks, draw an arrow from them to the person to whom they seem to be speaking. Later you can get an idea of who is talking and who is listening.
IMPORTANT: Make it sloppy enough to be mistaken for a random doodle. You can put it in the margins of your real notes, which you should also take, religiously.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
Get to see who the contributors and the time wasters are.
B.E.
You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: Training Young Engineers on Soft Skills