SE Lateral Exam
SE Lateral Exam
(OP)
Without discussing specifics of the exam itself, will anyone share thoughts about why the lateral portion of the SE exam seems so much more difficult than the gravity portion? Postings I've seen hear and elsewhere point to a lot of people pass the gravity, but not the lateral portion. Some take the gravity and lateral at different times, but with the same results. I'm sitting for both gravity and lateral in April for the first time. I have all the code references NCEES requires, and the sample/practice tests from NCEES and PPI. Is it just that so much more of the code provisions are focused on lateral concepts? Any thoughts or comments are appreciated. Thanks.






RE: SE Lateral Exam
I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.
RE: SE Lateral Exam
Overall I felt the problems were actually easier for lateral in the sense that there is much less they can test you on in the lateral exam. It was much easier to focus my studying. That said, it still took me two tries to pass the exam (but I only missed it by about one afternoon problem).
Maine Professional and Structural Engineer. www.fepc.us
(Just passed the 16-hour SE exam, woohoo!)
RE: SE Lateral Exam
I also believe that the only way to get through the afternoon portion of the lateral exam is to have worked examples for the seismic design and detailing questions. I just don't think that it's realistic to answer the questions fully, completely, accurately, showing all calculations and code references in the time allotted without the worked example(s). There are too many provisions to do so without a worked example to guide your answer.
RE: SE Lateral Exam
^THIS!!!^
I didn't pass lateral the first time due to an incomplete question. Second time around I made a flow-chart for much of the concrete questions I expected, such as seismic design of shear walls for example. Used it on the exam and I credit these flow charts with finishing ahead of time (while my 2 fellow test takers did not finish on time). The steel seismic design manual is very complete and you can likely use it as a reference for all the steps required. Wood and masonry lateral is simple enough for exam purposes.
Maine Professional and Structural Engineer. www.fepc.us
(Just passed the 16-hour SE exam, woohoo!)
RE: SE Lateral Exam
RE: SE Lateral Exam
Here's an ASCE 7 seismic flowchart I made for the exam (and also this engineer's blog): http://structuralengineerhq.com/blog/2014/09/02/th...
Maine Professional and Structural Engineer. www.fepc.us
(Just passed the 16-hour SE exam, woohoo!)
RE: SE Lateral Exam
The biggest piece of advice I can give to you is this: practice the basics until your hands cramp and then some - every day! Calculating seismic coefficients and distributing lateral forces in rigid diaphragms should become second nature to you. Hang in there... preparing for the test was an excellent exercise and greatly helped me develop as an engineer.
RE: SE Lateral Exam
That was very generous of you. Thank you.
RE: SE Lateral Exam
On top of that, at least in my experience, lateral (especially analysis) is more of a global item than a local item. Most young engineers aren't being handed whole projects (which is understandable, but unfortunate) that they're working on from start to finish and can really get a strong handle and feel for lateral behavior. They'll get parceled off items perhaps, but running the whole design from a lateral standpoint is usually reserved for engineers that are a little bit older it seems. Perhaps after a couple years they'll get to start running the show from an analysis standpoint, but by that time you've got half the experience in lateral as you do in gravity if you're taking the exam as early as you can. Some firms/companies are better than others at pressing the issue from a young age.
I don't think it's necessarily 'harder'. I think we just don't focus on it as much in the education and early stages of career that most engineers will have spent the bulk of their time in before taking the exam. Which is perhaps good. Major lateral events are by their nature rather rare, seems like a structure is much more likely to be forced to withstand its design gravity demand within any given year than its lateral demand. That philosophy doesn't really help you on the exam though, you still have to pass both parts.
RE: SE Lateral Exam
You should look up the NCEES results. Around the same amount of people pass for both exams. For buildings it was 41% pass for vertical and 40% pass for lateral. Among repeat takers it was 24% pass for vertical and 31% pass for lateral. Stats say that vertical may be harder.
With respect to studying it does depend a lot on who you are and how you learn. I struggled the first time with concrete and when studying I essentially illustrated the seismic chapter in the ACI code. I also spent a large portion of my time studying ASCE 7-05 (I know it is 7-10 now). The Seismic Design Manual is a bit overrated in my opinion. I had 341-05 and 358-05 and that got me by. I did have the SDM but didn't open it.
When they say it is a 8 hour exam they really mean it is 8.00001 hours. You will most likely not have time to go back and check much.
RE: SE Lateral Exam
Though it was expensive, and a great deal of time (I believe it was 13, 8-hour sessions at the time), I took the BYA Publications review course (http://www.structuralsolutions.com/seminars.html). I highly recommend this course, not just for the content and the instructors, but also for the networking opportunities. For example, at the time I took it, many people in there had already sat for the exam two, three, or more times. One such prior test taker informed me that I would be smart to know the CA SEAOCC Seismic Design Manuals (http://seaoc.org/bookstore/2012-ssdm-complete-coll...) frontwards and backwards. I took their advice and was pleasantly surprised to find one of the problems on the exam was very relevant to a sample problem in the manuals.
Other decent references to consider getting (I had them and knew them well) are the Structural Engineering Reference Manual (http://www.amazon.com/Structural-Engineering-Refer...) and 246 Solved Structural Engineering Problems (http://www.amazon.com/246-Solved-Structural-Engine...; not certain if this one would be as helpful anymore).
I would also, obviously, recommend having all of the required references, tabbing/highlighting them up like crazy, and also knowing them frontwards and backwards. I actually created a guide to all of my references so that if I encountered a problem on the exam I could find maybe several problems similar to that one, in my references, in less than ten seconds. Without going into too much detail, think of creating a guide organized by material (i.e. wood, steel, concrete, masonry, etc), type of element (i.e. beams, columns, footings, shear walls, etc.), and by reference... or something to that effect.
The other thing I think is important is attitude. Don't go into the exam, not studying, saying you're just going to audit it this time, and then pass it in the future. Don't go in saying you're going to pass half this time, and half next time. I had the attitude that I was only going to sit for it once, and I was going to pass it. Had I not passed it the first time, I think I would have been too demoralized to sit for it again. Not saying you can't be successful doing it those ways... I just think it decreases your chances.
Getting the SE is one of the smartest decisions I have made in my career. Don't psych yourself out. It's worth the time and effort required to obtain it.