×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Jobs

self confidence / self esteem
10

self confidence / self esteem

self confidence / self esteem

(OP)
Hello,

I will go straight to the point. I work in a broken organization since around 2 years. I simply made a bad career move from former company to the current one. That can happen to anyone I guess. No need to give all details of situation I am currently facing... micromanagment, absence of training opportunities, incompetent people empowered by management, lack of leadership, lack of skills, poor team spirit, no recognition, blames, threats, high turnover rate, execution issues, defects and non conformities...etc. I can go on and on. And no it is no everywhere like that.

What I did during these last two years is of course actively look for another job. So far nothing. I mean not any viable alternative. But I dont give up.
I fact I tried to get out of the company after the very first 6 months or so, however by then it was really difficult as I was perceived (almost systematically) as "job hopper" by prospective employers. After two years I am sure I can stand a chance, and I continue the job search. Since I dont want to switch discipline, the job search exercise is somehow more tedious.

From knowledge/learning point of view, I did my best to keep on moving forward. Means I do my work to the best of my capabilities, try to stay on projects, and I also educate myself as much as I can with the resources available. I really want to protect my resume by bringing some achievments into it despite the difficulties. I try to keep my mouth shut, but that is the most difficult part, really.

All in all, I keep going and try to make the best out of this situation. Now my problem. I realize on the long run that the situation I experience is slowely kind of "eroding" my self esteem. Its seems more a psychological issue. I dont know if some of you experienced the same. This is really something happening over an extended period. I guess self esteem is important when you deal with your own things in life - so my problem I dont want one problem A to spread through other areas B, C, D of life. But how to do that ?

So could you please share any tricks, orientations to keep my self esteem intact while going through survival strategies in a very harsh and broken environment (this I know how to do, it is the self confidence/esteem that is more of a concern) ?

Thanks very much

"If you want to acquire a knowledge or skill, read a book and practice the skill".

RE: self confidence / self esteem

Take up a hobby unrelated to work.
Get good at it.
Smile.

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: self confidence / self esteem

2
You need to remember that no job is worth your health, be it mental or physical. I had a job not too long ago that effected me to the point where I developed a stutter. Just not a good place to be, mentally. Naturally, my self-esteem began to erode a bit as well. However, having a good support system outside of work, as well as a couple of allies within work, helped to keep things in check. In the end, a new job came along and I was able to get out of the toxic environment I was in. It was, however, a long two years for me.
Be strong, rely on family and friends and you'll get through it.

Jeff Mirisola, CSWE
My Blog

RE: self confidence / self esteem

(OP)
Mike, I did. It is a sport hobby. It helps a bit. It slows down the erosion process, I guess does not stop it.
Bottom line agree with you. Thanks.

"If you want to acquire a knowledge or skill, read a book and practice the skill".

RE: self confidence / self esteem

It's also possible that the emotional pressures at work have affected your interview skills and your resume in ways of which you may be unaware.

Do you have a friend who would help you bury a body, and forever retain no clear memory of having done so? Get that person to review your resume, and conduct a mock interview, with a particular focus on what you are saying without saying it overtly. Since phone pre-interviews are now common, it could even be an old friend who is now geographically distant.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: self confidence / self esteem

3
I'm with Mike here, interviews are about attitude, to see how you get along with people, and to make sure you have some common sense to go along with your qualifications on paper.

In your interviews, you don't have to pretend that everything is perfect at your current job, but come up with good reasons for looking that do not involve having to explain how messed up the place is. Discuss it as little as possible, and smile while you do it. I have completely blown an interview because I was too negative. Next interview I switched to sarcasm (nothing too dark) and that worked out pretty well.

Prospective employer has to consider the fact that how you feel about your current employer, is how you might feel about them after awhile if they hire you. You must show restraint.

Whatever you do, avoid starting an interview like you started this post. Instead, you could try "Some days I feel like I'm in a Dilbert cartoon but there's no punch line, so I'm looking into other opportunities." If the interviewer, probes, DO NOT give any specific negative information that would make your current employer look bad.

It's a test, like when you get pulled over for speeding and the officer asks you why, you can't say "because I was the only car on the road, the weather was perfect, and I felt completely safe at that speed." You have to say "I don't have an excuse, but I guess the reason is that I just wasn't checking the speedometer, I realize it was dangerous to be driving that fast and it won't happen again."

RE: self confidence / self esteem

(OP)
Thank you Guys for your orientations and comments. This is really appreciated.

Quote (MikeHalloran)

It's also possible that the emotional pressures at work have affected your interview skills and your resume in ways of which you may be unaware.

Do you have a friend who would help you bury a body, and forever retain no clear memory of having done so? Get that person to review your resume, and conduct a mock interview, with a particular focus on what you are saying without saying it overtly. Since phone pre-interviews are now common, it could even be an old friend who is now geographically distant.

Possibly, my interview skills have been affected. More problematic is that I could be even unaware of.
I am thinking at this moment about who can help to implement your resume review and mock interview method. Many thanks again.

"If you want to acquire a knowledge or skill, read a book and practice the skill".

RE: self confidence / self esteem

Dude I'm in the same situation. It tears down my self confidence every time they don't let me spread my wings, every time that the boss trusts another engineer's opinion over mine. But the situation comes to... we are passionate about our job. This is where patience comes in. I figure if I continue to be passionate and continually prove that I am part of a team that wins, then they will choose mine over theirs. The situation is, they hire older contract engineers that are dumb. And it pisses the client off every time we hand the client a pile of trash that an engineer charges 150$ an hour 80 hours. THATS 12000 DOLLARS. My confidence is directly related to the fact that I know I'm a good engineer. SELF CONFIDENCE SHOULD ALWAYS BE INTRINSIC. DO NOT ALLOW EXTRINSIC ENVIRONMENTS TO CONTROL YOUR SELF CONFIDENCE. YOU SAY THAT YOU DO EVERYTHING YOU CAN TO BE A GOOD ENGINEER AND YOU KNOW THAT. ALL YOU CAN DO IS YOUR BEST MAN. Here's a quote from motivational speaker eric thomas; "WHEN NO ONE IS LOOKIN, A REAL MAN IS PUTTING IN WORK". This is the damned truth. Don't you let little shithead designers bring your confidence down and don't you let anyone put your self confidence down but yourself. If you don't mind people screaming in your face listen to eric thomas. It will motivate you.

RE: self confidence / self esteem

2

Quote (Playswow)

Dude I'm in the same situation. It tears down my self confidence every time they don't let me spread my wings, every time that the boss trusts another engineer's opinion over mine. But the situation comes to... we are passionate about our job. This is where patience comes in. I figure if I continue to be passionate and continually prove that I am part of a team that wins, then they will choose mine over theirs. The situation is, they hire older contract engineers that are dumb. And it pisses the client off every time we hand the client a pile of trash that an engineer charges 150$ an hour 80 hours. THATS 12000 DOLLARS. My confidence is directly related to the fact that I know I'm a good engineer.
There's a difference between self-confidence/passion and cockiness/arrogance. Your post seems to swing to the latter. Calling hired contractors older and dumb, saying what a great engineer you think you are, etc. Maybe there's a reason the boss trusts the other engineers' opinions over yours. You can be patient all you want, but if you come off like an arrogant know-it-all, your patience will never be rewarded because you're waiting for the wrong thing.

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: self confidence / self esteem

I appreciate the comment, however I am a Junior engineer with roughly a year of experience. So arrogance would be practically impossible to achieve unless I was just a complete idiot. When someone comes into a job with so called 30 years of experience and doesn't think to check deflection or doesn't know the difference between two types of connections... but has a pretty resume, there is one thing that comes to mind... fake engineer. What is your definition of a good engineer?

RE: self confidence / self esteem

Playswow - never mind your question of defining a good engineer. You are only looking for affirmation. But, go ahead and read these:
http://www.asce.org/code_of_ethics/
http://www.nspe.org/resources/ethics/code-ethics

You may find your attitude doesn't quite align with some of those references.

Now, back to the OP...
rotw - you owe it to yourself (and your friends, family, wife, girlfriend, etc.) to be content with your life. That requires you to take chances by TAKING ACTION to make your life healthier. For me, I keep up with my mental health by going to a therapist, as well as playing musical instruments - in addition to having quality relationships with friends and family. Regarding the therapist, it is amazing what a trustworthy and an objective person can do for your confidence if you are open to their opinion and take action. Tackle your problem like an engineer/scientist! Isolate variables, make changes to one variable at a time, review output, and revise/repeat as many times a you need to arrive at an acceptable solution.

RE: self confidence / self esteem

g. Engineers shall not maliciously or falsely, directly or indirectly, injure the professional reputation, prospects, practice or employment of another engineer or indiscriminately criticize another's work.

RE: self confidence / self esteem

rotw, you may find You Are a Badass by Jen Sincero and Mindset by Carol Dweck useful reads.

Also, find a mentor inside the company or outside. Find a sponsor inside the company, if possible. Apply yourself and concentrate on the ways you are successful at engineering and your personal life. Do not focus on the negative of your job or life. Focus on the positive and work on the things you need to work on. Do not be afraid to learn about yourself and change.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

RE: self confidence / self esteem

"g. Engineers shall not maliciously or falsely, directly or indirectly, injure the professional reputation, prospects, practice or employment of another engineer or indiscriminately criticize another's work."

Indeed.

You have to get along. You have to play nice with others. It is better to ask questions than to criticise.

Saying "Do we know how much deflection there is at this spot right here because of the wind loading? (or whatever the nature of the apparently-missing calculation is)" will get you a whole lot further in life than "This analysis is a pile of crap because they didn't consider the wind loading (or whatever it is)".

I always presume the work done by another engineer to be in proper order, even if that other engineer is one of my competitors. Doesn't stop me from asking questions, should the need arise. You never know when you might end up working side by side with them.

RE: self confidence / self esteem

rotw, I once walked away from a job that sounds very similar to the environment you're describing. I had no new job lined up - I just knew I had to get out of there, as it was affecting my physical and mental health. It took about two months for me to detox from that situation, and then I was able to find a great job.

If you can't find a job, and it really is affecting you deeply, then consider leaving without a new job (if you can swing it), or perhaps going back to school for a masters or the like, if you don't already have that.

good luck!

and Playswow - kindly tone down your language. That is not in any way appropriate on a professional forum.

Please remember: we're not all guys!

RE: self confidence / self esteem

rotw,

Also - if you are in a committed relationship/marriage, etc. you *should* be able to rely on he/she to help you during this rough time. Personally, I would work 70-hours a week to help my wife transition from a horrible job to a better one. Mental health >> any job. Also, other people in your support system (parents, friends, etc.) may be able to help you. If you have maintained those healthy relationships, they will be more than glad to give you that support. Now, it may not be $$$ support, but it could be enough to help you relax, find a better head space, and gain the confidence to make a positive change for yourself.

"It is imperative Cunth doesn't get his hands on those codes."

RE: self confidence / self esteem

(OP)
Your posts are informative and encouraging. Thanks to all.

"If you want to acquire a knowledge or skill, read a book and practice the skill".

RE: self confidence / self esteem

(OP)
Dear All,

I have an update and also kindly request your suggestion and orientation.

I got a job opportunity at a new company but here is the thing:

- salary is going to decrease by 10% and cannot be negotiated further which is awkward but still not a show stopper as my mental sanity and health are paramount;
- job is via a contracting agency so I am no more a staff member of the company itself, however I managed to negotiate to have a permanent contract with the contracting agency itself - I don't how solid is that and how much security it brings - it says that basically if I cant work for company due to workforce reduction for instance or whatsoever (I guess not a result of disciplinary actions for sure), then I'll still continue to be paid by the contracting agency and they will have to find me a new assignment- humm well that is on paper of course, how it is reality remains to be seen;
- I will have to relocate about 200 km south but that is not a big obstacle; I will change landscape.
- The company accepted me quite quickly after the first interview..humm I don't know if this a good sign. Easy come easy go...I know this saying;
- The positive part is that company is a major oil and gas company and I will be working in the chemical plant itself so there is good opportunity to learn about equipment onsite etc. I know some members of our forum have developed premium knowledge thanks to their exposure in a plant/facility location with lot of different equipment running at their facility so its good to see various type of beasts and animals on real plant. Difficult to say about the colleagues and manager at the company...is it also broken...humm the company is a giant which should have solid processes and possibly operational safeguards to make things (and people) working, relatively, properly, just a guess still an unknown aspect.

In the meantime at my present company I still continue to struggle; I make the best out of it means learn as much as I can, stay committed to safety and quality but the environment gets really nasty and it is systemic dysfunction, means it hits really hard/ cant be fixed. Although I tend to see it happening everywhere nowadays: decrease of competence and skills, Master But Average (MBA) type of management etc. still it hits very hard.

I do have another interview process running in the background, I did the first interview round - it was very intense questioning and probing means it was not the "quick and dirty" interview step which I like because it probably is a sign of a solid company and not that of a broken job/function/environment.

Pretty much this is it. So If you can give me some piece of orientation I would greatly appreciate.
I also have only two days to give my final decision to the hiring contracting company... Thanks anyway

RE: self confidence / self esteem

>>>salary is going to decrease by 10% and cannot be negotiated further which is awkward but still not a show stopper<<<

A salary cut for a temp job would be a show-stopper for me, even if it includes beacoup benefits. A verbal promise to keep paying you after the current job disappears is not a benefit.

There are a few real benefits to working for a contract house:
( Yours sounds disreputable, absent other info not in evidence. )
- No matter how bad the job is, it only lasts for a finite time; then you move on to other things.
- It usually pays quite a bit more than an equivalent direct job, somewhat less if it includes real benefits like good medical coverage and paid vacation.
- When things go sideways, contractors usually get a _lot_ more notice of involuntary termination than do direct employees.
- Contractors are noncombatants in company politics. This can be hugely enjoyable; keep working, keep your head down, and listen to the sturm and drang all around you. It's like having a personal circus.




Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: self confidence / self esteem

The one thing that does not compute here is the salary cut to go job shopping.
When I worked for an agency the salary was 20 to 50 % higher than the full time employee in the same position.
Also if the agency is reputable they will have your next assignment lined up, before your current contract ends.
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.

RE: self confidence / self esteem

If it is a job that I REALLY want, I don't want a contracting agency being a middle-man between me and the company. Do you REALLY want this job? I think you should ask yourself that considering the fact that you are going to relocate. Considering the fact that its a temp job, is relocating going to be worth it in the end?

On the other hand, the fact that its a temp job gives you a free pass to not stay there for very long. If you take the temp job, you could find your true calling and a long-term job that you could love long-term

"Formal education is a weapon, whose effect depends on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed." ~ Joseph Stalin

RE: self confidence / self esteem

(OP)
Guys some update and follow up...

I dropped the agency job option; salary decrease...mmm well at the end...not a good idea .

I just landed a face to face interview for project engineer type (slightly outside my core discipline but still okay) of job which I shall attend soon, this follows several round of exploratory interviews for the subject job.

The HR announced to me that the interview will be technical and via conference call; I am wondering what kind of questions I should expect ? Should I prepare my self technically (doing some pre works although I only have a couple of day) and how or is it useless and I should just be relaxed and have good focus the day of the interview ?

Thanks in advance, I feel this job is really a chance I have to take.

RE: self confidence / self esteem

If you think you might want this job then some homework might be a good idea, obviously you won't become an expert in 2 days but it can help.

My current job I was told I'd be asked about knowledge of GD&T at the interview, so I brushed up some before I came in. Mostly served to show me how little I knew but perhaps it helped me get the job by making sure I didn't walk in thinking I knew all about it.

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: self confidence / self esteem

That's a good point. If it's not your area, try to learn just enough to know what you don't know, but to show that you can learn it.

RE: self confidence / self esteem

Look up any connections between the two disciplines and make sure to have a few examples of how your current knowledge transfers or has been transferred in other situations.

Talk to engineers on here that are in that area of expertise! Theres gotta be a section for it on here somewhere lol

"Formal education is a weapon, whose effect depends on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed." ~ Joseph Stalin

RE: self confidence / self esteem

(OP)
Guys thanks for the input. Short update: I attended the interview and it was really technical to the smallest details. Means they gave me some technical documents, diagrams etc. which I had to comment or for which I got questions. I don't know the impression I've made...: For some aspects, I more or less know my answers were correct; for some others, well, I feel could have done better job. In some cases - when I didn't know the answer - I just said "I don't know but I feel this something I could learn it quickly thanks to...etc." as suggested above...certainly I was not always comfortable with it!
Surprisingly some home works I've done the day before, based on job description and doing some google search and reading stuffs helped me out quite well.

All in all it was at least a good learning experience! What I will now remember is that during my daily work I shall question the details and try to understand for myself the technical background of things ; it is the only way to build solid knowledge. It is only via a thorough and solid understanding of things that we could explain to others how things work with clear thoughts; this includes challenging ourselves on a daily basis: why is that, why using this component here, what is the function of that component, why is it done differently there than here, etc.

So I now would like to think of any learning experience as a journey and not as a destination to be reached, where there are such and suc key topics to be mastered. So the key is keeping the intellectual curiosity always strong. The destination will come as a result, does not need to be calculated, well a little.

I wanted to share this with you. About the outcome of the interview...well I have to wait for some time to receive a feedback I shall be patient while in the meantime my current work situation is becoming the nightmare of my life. I keep you posted ;) thanks a lot again for reading me.

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources