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Getting an SE License
2

Getting an SE License

Getting an SE License

(OP)
I am a PE in two states and the company I work for provides equipment and structural supports for the utility industry all over the country. I am interested in becoming an SE. In the past states required both the Structures I and Structures II test. I understand that each state is different, but that most states now require a 16 hour test to get an SE license. Is that correct? I have passed the Structures I test in 2001. Does that mean I am still required to take the full 16 hour test? If I take the test for one state, do other states recognize this? For example, I was considering getting an Illinois SE. Would California recognize this or do they require additional testing?

RE: Getting an SE License

Not sure about current rules in CA but the Structural II is no longer offered I believe.
So you would have to take and pasds the current 16 hour structural exam to get licensed in Illinois.

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RE: Getting an SE License

16 hours - two days SE exam provided by NCEES and accepted by most States as I understood.

RE: Getting an SE License

I'm pretty sure California is not going to accept any inferior (defined as any other state) state's registration. If you want to get an SE in California, go west young man! Of course, if you're a woman, this will have to be restated.

RE: Getting an SE License

All of the SE states now require the 16 hr exam and accept no substitutes. And you can take the exam anywhere. I took mine abroad and it was accepted by Washington and California without difficulty. California will of course expect you to be a CE for three years before become an SE. And that will require passing their two state specific exams.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

RE: Getting an SE License

Not wanting to hijack the thread, but curious why California has its own examinations for SE...is gravity or the laws of nature somehow different in Ca?

RE: Getting an SE License

With the advent of the 16 hr exam, their SE requirements are no longer any different. Rather, it's their CE requirements that are. Considering the importance that earthquake engineering plays in the design of California's infrastructure, it has been deemed sensible for civil engineers to be somewhat versed in seismic issues.

In the past, CA SE testing requirements were much more stringent. To me that seems natural given the frequency with which earthquakes affect people's lives on the west coast. And, while the gap is closing, there has historically been a pretty serious gap in seismic engineering competence between the west coast and the rest of the country.

I personally applaud California's initiative in this realm. They take their structural engineering seriously, they take their licensing seriously, and they take inspection seriously. I'd be fine with California's approach being adopted by all jurisdictions.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

RE: Getting an SE License

For California I think the national test is required plus you will
"In addition, the applicant must pass the California Civil exams in Seismic Principles and on
Engineering Surveying, which are given as two additional 2½-hour computer base tested
(CBT) exams."

For a SE
"Obtain at least three references who are authorized to use the title "Structural
Engineer" by having passed the Western Zone Structural Engineer Examination and who have personal knowledge of the applicant's qualifying work experience. See Question 26, part c for information on how to obtain suitable references. These three references, taken together, must verify three full years (36 months) of responsible charge experience. Responsible charge experience does not begin until licensure as a professional or civil engineer has been obtained (in California the date used is that of the last part of the exam by which the applicant obtained his or her license. See Question 22, part d.)"

This information and more is available from the attach link under the "FAQs regarding Engineering Certification/Licensure Requirements"
http://www.bpelsg.ca.gov/applicants/index.shtml

Garth Dreger PE - AZ Phoenix area
As EOR's we should take the responsibility to design our structures to support the components we allow in our design per that industry standards.

RE: Getting an SE License

This may be a stupid question....

Previously you were required by your jurisdiction to pass the Structural I exam and obtain a PE. That exam is no longer used and your state probably requires new structural PE applicants to pass the 16 hour exam. Now, to get a license in another state you are required to pass the 16 hour exam which you take and unfortunately don't pass (you're a little rusty). What happens to your original license? Are you no longer a PE?

I have never found the answer to this question (although I haven't look too hard).

RE: Getting an SE License

SteelPE, that's the reason I never:
1) Ask for my scores
2) Try for states where I might have to take another exam.

RE: Getting an SE License

Definitely still a PE.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

RE: Getting an SE License

Jed,

Thanks for the reply. I have been very nervous about going out and getting more licenses for the reason I listed above. As a sole proprietor loosing my license (for whatever reason) would be devastating.

So have you applied for licenses in other states since they implemented the new exam? I haven't needed to but I am just wondering if you have and if the process was difficult or not.

KootK

Do you have any proof that you are still a PE? Is this something you have dealt with personally.... or know someone who has?

RE: Getting an SE License

I do not have any "proof" SteelPE. My statement was based on:

1) My opinion that it would be utterly absurd to be going around un-licensing existing PE's because they stumbled on some new fangled SE exam.

2) The fact that, historically, there's been a long standing and, as far as I know, utterly uninterrupted tradition of "grandfathering" when it comes to PE/SE licensing.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

RE: Getting an SE License

For some of us, the term is "great-grandfathering".

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)


RE: Getting an SE License

You could always call or e-mail your state engineering board and ask them. Be should to get the rule section they are answering by.

Garth Dreger PE - AZ Phoenix area
As EOR's we should take the responsibility to design our structures to support the components we allow in our design per that industry standards.

RE: Getting an SE License

The odd thing about California/Illinois is that while both require the 16 hr test for a SE license, California requires you to be a licensed civil engineer prior to applying for the SE. This is all well and good if you start your licensing procedure in in Calif. where you can sit for the CE after two years then work towards the SE afterwards. However, someone gaining licensure in Illinois can test and obtain an SE without ever having a civil PE. Therefore someone can pass the more rigorous SE test and obtain license in Ill., have years upon years of structural engineering experience, and still have to go back and sit for the Civil PE test in Calif. prior to obtaining an SE license. It seems backwards to me that, after establishing competency based on a more difficult standard, you are forced to go back and pass an "easier" test designed for relatively green engineers.

To make matters worse, other states are looking at CA as a model when considering instituting SE licensure laws(requiring a civil PE prior to the SE). For a state going from no SE requirements to a California-based SE model, you would up the required testing hours to practice structural engineering from 8 hrs (for Civil PE only) to 24 hrs (Civil PE + SE) overnight. (All while grandfathering in all practicing structural engineers with nothing but a signed affidavit of course..)

RE: Getting an SE License

Well in California a CE can design anything but public schools and hospitals. Per the attached info.

Garth Dreger PE - AZ Phoenix area
As EOR's we should take the responsibility to design our structures to support the components we allow in our design per that industry standards.

RE: Getting an SE License

Since we're on the subject, how are those California exams?

"In addition, the applicant must pass the California Civil exams in Seismic Principles and on
Engineering Surveying, which are given as two additional 2½-hour computer base tested
(CBT) exams."

EIT
www.HowToEngineer.com

RE: Getting an SE License

Well when I took it and per another engineer who took last year, the seismic is okay buy the surveying is very hard for a PE. Few PE's do enough surveying to have enough current knowledge to pass it easily.

Garth Dreger PE - AZ Phoenix area
As EOR's we should take the responsibility to design our structures to support the components we allow in our design per that industry standards.

RE: Getting an SE License

as a non-structural, civil engineer - I found the surveying special exam to be a cakewalk and the seismic was tough (just 7% pass rate). but that was 20 years ago

RE: Getting an SE License

The seismic is easy. The surveying is easy too but, for most folks, will require some definite preparation as most SE's don't spend a lot of time designing vertical curves etc. Also, there are some surveying California-isms that one needs to be aware of. A read through PPI's surveying book is sufficient. And maybe some calculator programming to shave time...

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

RE: Getting an SE License

(OP)
Thanks to all for your thoughts.

RE: Getting an SE License

Last year I took and passed the 16 hour SE exam. Now I am considering the CA specific exams. Any recommendations on reference material? Specifically for the surveying exam?

RE: Getting an SE License

KootK
When did you take the test?
Mine was almost twenty years ago and my friend was last year.

Garth Dreger PE - AZ Phoenix area
As EOR's we should take the responsibility to design our structures to support the components we allow in our design per that industry standards.

RE: Getting an SE License

@Woodman: class of 2007 for SEI; class of 2012 for the new exam.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

RE: Getting an SE License

KootK
"new test"?
I was referring to the California additional tests (Seismic and Surveying).

Garth Dreger PE - AZ Phoenix area
As EOR's we should take the responsibility to design our structures to support the components we allow in our design per that industry standards.

RE: Getting an SE License

@Woodman: in that case, 2009 at the rustic Cow Palace. If it's good enough for Prince, it's good enough for me.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

RE: Getting an SE License

KootK
So you have not then taken the California tests (Seismic and Surveying) that you are commenting on?

Garth Dreger PE - AZ Phoenix area
As EOR's we should take the responsibility to design our structures to support the components we allow in our design per that industry standards.

RE: Getting an SE License

@Woodman: I took the state specific seismic and surveying exams, in California, at the Cow Palace, in San Franciso, in April of 2009. It was foggy and I almost soiled myself because the fob key on the cool muscle car that I rented crapped out the morning of the exam.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

RE: Getting an SE License

My wife wrote the CA exams with me and did't pass surveying. Lack of prep and good calculator programs. Of course, she took the civil PE the same weekend whereas I did not. A pretty tall order in retrospect. We befriended a DOT bridge engineer in the wait line who claimed to be on his 6th attempt. He was pretty high strung for a Californian.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

RE: Getting an SE License

KootK
Okay, I am from southern California so I did not get the "Cow Palace" reference.
Sorry about that.

Garth Dreger PE - AZ Phoenix area
As EOR's we should take the responsibility to design our structures to support the components we allow in our design per that industry standards.

RE: Getting an SE License

And I guess that it's relevant to mention that the villagers did not, in fact, assemble with pitch forks in hand to reclaim my wife's existing SE licenses. At least... not yet.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

RE: Getting an SE License

@Woodman: no sweat. Upon reread, you were clearly asking about the CA specific exams. I'm curious though, were you asking because you disagree with my assessment? To me, it sounds as though we're on the same page: seismic doable; surveying tough due to lack of practice.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

RE: Getting an SE License

KootK
First off, I pretty much disagree with almost everything California does regarding CE and SE engineering licensing.

As for the Surveying test, first time I studied for the main test only. so did not pass the Surveying. Second time the Surveying test was all based on CalTrans information. Not only did they have their own equations, they had a difference surveying stick that all test takers were question about. So I did not pass again. Third time (as I complained and knew others had too) I just restudied Surveying. The test had no CalTrans questions so I passed.

So I am interested in how others feel about how they are testing Surveying now.

Garth Dreger PE - AZ Phoenix area
As EOR's we should take the responsibility to design our structures to support the components we allow in our design per that industry standards.

RE: Getting an SE License

In 2009, surveying seemed very well coordinated with PPI's book which was crucial for me. I also seemed to have just the right programs on my HP48 which got me through about half of the questions at a very good clip. I'm still a little annoyed that I mastered photogrammetry for no reason. It's taking up limited KootK disk space that I could dedicate to worrying more about shear friction or Aaron Rodgers' health.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

RE: Getting an SE License

(OP)
@KootK

Looking at the NCEES web site, it appears that in the afternoon sessions you are required to work a steel problem, a concrete problem, a wood problem and a masonry problem. Am I reading that correctly or can you choose just one problem?

RE: Getting an SE License

My recollection of it is foggy but I think it was two of four problems, your choice.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

RE: Getting an SE License

@PEFLWI: For the 16 hour SE exam, for buildings, in the afternoon session; you are required to work a steel problem, a concrete problem, a wood and/or masonry problem, and a general analysis problem (which likely includes a mix of materials). Essentially you need to know concrete, steel, and wood really well, masonry and foundations sort of well, and general structural analysis really well.

You cannot pick or choose which problem to complete, all 4 must be completed. Looking at historic failing grades it appears that any "unacceptable" mark on these problems is an automatic fail (unless you aced the morning session perhaps).

Maine Professional and Structural Engineer.
(Just passed the 16-hour SE exam, woohoo!)

RE: Getting an SE License

Thanks for correcting me on this TME. It's shocking how little I remember really. Back it 2009, when I wrote the exam, it seem like my whole life.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

RE: Getting an SE License

Probably confusing it with the older PE exam which, if I recall, my boss mentioned you could choose 2 of the 4 problems or something like that.

I'm in the process of trying to blank all the struggle of studying for the SE exam from my memory. Also, did you mean to write "when I wrote the exam"? If so don't ever tell me your address, I hear there's this guy that ships an exploding package of glitter to someones house and it may or may not end up at your door. :P

Maine Professional and Structural Engineer.
(Just passed the 16-hour SE exam, woohoo!)

RE: Getting an SE License

As a recent passer of the 16 hour SE I echo TehMightyEngineer in that Steel, Concrete, and Wood need to be understood very well for the afternoon session while Masonry being not as important (from my experience). Don't trust NCEES to maintain the balance between masonry and the rest of the materials. I took the lateral exam twice in 2014 and it was very different each time.

Taking the SE was both mentally and physically draining. I studied for over a year, and it was always on my mind the days I wasn't studying.

RE: Getting an SE License

Yes in the state of CA, you have to take 16 hr SE again.

CA used to have SEIII. They no longer offer it.

BTW, before SE, you need to pass CA State Specific Exams-Seismic and Survey to become CA PE and then apply for CA SE.

IMO, Seismic is easy if your are into that. For me Survey was a hell, as I never touched it after my 2nd year of UG. I passed 8hr and Seismic in the first go and had to retake survey.

Texas also offer the same SE exam (NCEES 16 hr exam). They may call it PE Structural. They don't need references from SE's. PE is good enough for TX. But for CA, u have to get 3 or 4 SE references.

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