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Connection of Steel Brick Lintel (For Support of Brick Weight) to Cold Formed Metal Studs

Connection of Steel Brick Lintel (For Support of Brick Weight) to Cold Formed Metal Studs

Connection of Steel Brick Lintel (For Support of Brick Weight) to Cold Formed Metal Studs

(OP)
I am currently working on a CFMS submittal for a steel framed structure and have encountered a detail provided by the EOR which indicates that the light gauge studs spanning between high and low roof framing shall provide vertical support for the brick veneer along this wall. I have already sent an RFI to the EOR regarding this non standard detail and their response was that this detail has been used before. The centerline of brick is offset from the face of the 6" studs approximately 4 inches and the weight of the brick varies between 175 lbs to 408 lbs at the peak of the gable. I am looking for advice on the best way to model this section in order to determine the reactions at the screws (caused by this eccentric loading).

Any suggestions for solving this problem would be appreciated. Thanks.

RE: Connection of Steel Brick Lintel (For Support of Brick Weight) to Cold Formed Metal Studs

I'd assume that the angle rotates about its heel. I might also assume that only the top two screws take tension. It's a tough thing to analyze with any great amount of confidence so some conservatism is probably in order. In the past, I've but blocking in the studs right behind the angle. It might be overkill by I worry about localized stud buckling. In the unlikely event that this is a shear wall, you might also give some thought to the interruption that the angle will cause in the plywood sheathing.

The greatest trick that bond stress ever pulled was convincing the world it didn't exist.

RE: Connection of Steel Brick Lintel (For Support of Brick Weight) to Cold Formed Metal Studs

I have done a lot of these--but never with screws.

The brick shelf angle should be welded to each stud.

DaveAtkins

RE: Connection of Steel Brick Lintel (For Support of Brick Weight) to Cold Formed Metal Studs

I hate that detail but have had to deal with it on many occasions. I have only done it by welding. Usually 14g a min. studs. and weld to the radius of the stud to keep the flange from bending.
A lot easier than field drilling a million small holes in the angle. Might wanna show flashing and weep holes (by others) as well just to cover yourself in case they are not shown elsewhere.

RE: Connection of Steel Brick Lintel (For Support of Brick Weight) to Cold Formed Metal Studs

Re screwing...TEKS Series 500 screws can be fastened directly through 3/8" thick steel without pre-drilling, using a 1/2" drive cordless impact wrench.

RE: Connection of Steel Brick Lintel (For Support of Brick Weight) to Cold Formed Metal Studs

Ingenuity,
That might be theoretically possible if the pieces are oriented correctly, but in this case when the screw hits the flimsy bit of the stud, I think it would tend to push rather than bite. Another issue is clearance for the tool.

RE: Connection of Steel Brick Lintel (For Support of Brick Weight) to Cold Formed Metal Studs

Yeah, I've heard of the same issues fastening through new drag struts up into existing metal deck. Would it be possible to screw from the interior side or would that damage the envelope?

The greatest trick that bond stress ever pulled was convincing the world it didn't exist.

RE: Connection of Steel Brick Lintel (For Support of Brick Weight) to Cold Formed Metal Studs

(OP)
KootK, Hokie66 - we were also concerned about the problem of connecting from the 3/8" angle to the thinner stud flange. The EOR suggested that we could predrill the holes in the angle to avoid this issue - I don't believe that they want us to screw from the interior side.

I have attempted to model this angle/connection configuration in RISA in an effort to get an idea of the reactions at the screws, but I am not sure that the results I have seen are accurate. I was hoping to figure out a way determine these reactions, since it would help with convincing the EOR, etc. that this approach is not advisable.

Similar to what KootK mentioned, our initial thought regarding this connection was that the top screw would pick up most of the tension load and the other two screws would not pick up much of the load until the top one failed. At this point, I do not believe that the screwed connection will not work for this application - I will push for the welded connection.

Thank you all for your advice.

RE: Connection of Steel Brick Lintel (For Support of Brick Weight) to Cold Formed Metal Studs

@Ingenuity:

Tek screws work best when fastening from thin to thick. I would not count on them in this situation without pre-drilling the thicker member. Either way, it is a pain in the ass. I have installed many Teks thru 3/8" steel and it takes awhile. Welding would be significantly faster.

RE: Connection of Steel Brick Lintel (For Support of Brick Weight) to Cold Formed Metal Studs


M = P e = 408#(4") = 1630 # in

Assume screws are 1", 2.5" and 4" above axis of rotation

I = 12 + 2.52 + 42 = 23.3

T = Mc/I = 1630(4)/23.3 = 280#/screw

V = 480/3 = 136#/screw

RE: Connection of Steel Brick Lintel (For Support of Brick Weight) to Cold Formed Metal Studs

Place the angle directly on the steel joists; provide masonry infill and flashing to Elev. 14'-0".

BA

RE: Connection of Steel Brick Lintel (For Support of Brick Weight) to Cold Formed Metal Studs

480/3 = 160#/screw

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)


RE: Connection of Steel Brick Lintel (For Support of Brick Weight) to Cold Formed Metal Studs

408/3 = 160#/screw

BA

RE: Connection of Steel Brick Lintel (For Support of Brick Weight) to Cold Formed Metal Studs

oops
480/3 = 136#/screw

BA

RE: Connection of Steel Brick Lintel (For Support of Brick Weight) to Cold Formed Metal Studs

oops, I meant
408/3 = 136#/screw
not 480/3

RE: Connection of Steel Brick Lintel (For Support of Brick Weight) to Cold Formed Metal Studs

Quote (ExcelEngineering)

Tek screws work best when fastening from thin to thick. I would not count on them in this situation without pre-drilling the thicker member. Either way, it is a pain in the ass. I have installed many Teks thru 3/8" steel and it takes awhile. Welding would be significantly faster.

For TEKS Series 500 that I have used (Buildex/ITW from Australia), provided the length of the integral drill flute is greater or equal to the total thickness of the materials to the drilled (both materials plus any air gap), no predrilling is necessary, in my experience. I just completed a commercial project with my builder brother and I installed a few thousand 38mm long TEKS through 8mm steel to 1.2mm purlin section and we were installing 3 or 4 screws per minute. Hex-head TEKS with a impact driver at correct RPM assisted greatly.

I assume the 6" stud would have a BMT of greater than 1.0mm for this application, so not really flimsy. It is possible to install from the inside of the stud (may need a extension to the driver bit) at the web/flange interface and result in greater pull-through capacity as you mobilize the TEKS head through the cold-formed stud.

RE: Connection of Steel Brick Lintel (For Support of Brick Weight) to Cold Formed Metal Studs

Perhaps the screw itself can be justified, but then the stud flange must be checked for bending. That is why I always show a weld, along the web side of the flange as mentioned by ExcelEngineering.

DaveAtkins

RE: Connection of Steel Brick Lintel (For Support of Brick Weight) to Cold Formed Metal Studs

Assuming your project is in the US, the welder must be qualified to weld sheet metal (CFS is essentially sheet steel) as well as structural steel. AWS D1.1 and D1.3 are both in play on this one.

RE: Connection of Steel Brick Lintel (For Support of Brick Weight) to Cold Formed Metal Studs

What a horrible detail. I have run into this before on my projects and I end up with the brick being supported directly on the joist and not relying on welds and screws to support the brick.

I find it frustrating when dealing with some engineers who say "it's been done before and it's not my problem". I could go on and on about this but at some point we need to stand back and see the big picture.

RE: Connection of Steel Brick Lintel (For Support of Brick Weight) to Cold Formed Metal Studs

SteelPE,

Welding a steel shelf angle to cold formed steel studs is done successfully all the time. It is the typical way to support face brick above a continuous ribbon window.

DaveAtkins

RE: Connection of Steel Brick Lintel (For Support of Brick Weight) to Cold Formed Metal Studs

When it must be done, it can be done; however running the masonry down to the joist is a better detail.

BA

RE: Connection of Steel Brick Lintel (For Support of Brick Weight) to Cold Formed Metal Studs

I agree with BAretired. Ask the EOR if they can revise the detail. (But I suspect that the answer will be "no".) Also, it looks like a significant concentrated load will be bearing on the joist from all of this brick. I wonder if the EOR checked it?

RE: Connection of Steel Brick Lintel (For Support of Brick Weight) to Cold Formed Metal Studs

(OP)
Cliff234 - As it stands right now the screw connection will not work. Not for the tension reactions at the screws or the combined tension and shear check from AISI. I don't know whether the EOR checked the concentrated loads from the brick, but I was planning on noting this since that is also a significant point load bearing directly on the metal deck. Again, thank you all for your comments. You have given me a lot to think about.

RE: Connection of Steel Brick Lintel (For Support of Brick Weight) to Cold Formed Metal Studs

I'll confess that I've been guilty of issuing similar details in the past. Wasn't too thrilled with it then; not too thrilled with it now. I have three additional concerns:

1) Metal deck crushing.
2) The connection between the studs and box beams feels like a hinge to me. Do the track to track screws create fixity at that joint?
3) How are details like this not an issue from a building envelope perspective? I would think that you'd have a thermal break extending from the angle leg clean through to the exterior side of the gypsum sheathing.

The greatest trick that bond stress ever pulled was convincing the world it didn't exist.

RE: Connection of Steel Brick Lintel (For Support of Brick Weight) to Cold Formed Metal Studs

@ingenuity:

Any Tek rated for structural steel of that thickness will be 24 TPI. Nothing in Buildex's catalog rates this screw for anything lighter than 12 ga material - so 12 ga min stud would have to be used (likely way overkill)
Also, they cannot be installed from inside the stud flange as the screw would have to be drilled at an angle and would walk all over the place (been there done that)

As BA and SteelPE stated, the best way to do it is to run the masonry down to the deck.

RE: Connection of Steel Brick Lintel (For Support of Brick Weight) to Cold Formed Metal Studs

Dave,

I understand that it can be done successfully but the guys who work on your buildings must be better than mine. I would avoid welding to thin members when I can. I also avoid screwing very think members to very thin members. I have clients who think all steel can be welded the same way. They don't understand that a little more prep may be required to achieve a proper weld.

Kook,

A better detail would have a channel toed down to support the base of the stud wall and prevent the wall from crushing the deck. In fact, if the brick would run down to the deck, this is the detail I would use to support the brick. Either a 6" or 12" channel..... depending on if I think they can lay out the deck correctly.

RE: Connection of Steel Brick Lintel (For Support of Brick Weight) to Cold Formed Metal Studs

Quote (SteelPE)

A better detail would have a channel toed down to support the base of the stud wall and prevent the wall from crushing the deck. In fact, if the brick would run down to the deck, this is the detail I would use to support the brick. Either a 6" or 12" channel..... depending on if I think they can lay out the deck correctly.

KootK likey. I'm going to use my building envelope argument, true or not, to scare architects into using this detail in the future. Sometimes people need to be misinformed for their own good. Any fascist regime will confirm that.

The greatest trick that bond stress ever pulled was convincing the world it didn't exist.

RE: Connection of Steel Brick Lintel (For Support of Brick Weight) to Cold Formed Metal Studs

I would not support the brick on top of the deck; it would be better to break the deck and support the brick on a member spanning between joists and attached to the top chords. If the load comes between panel points of the joists, suitable reinforcement may be provided to carry the weight of brick.

BA

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