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Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off
6

Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

(OP)
Hi all, i am a plumbing & fire protection engineer with 3 years experience in NYC. Like the title says i was unfortunately laid off just yesterday. I had left my last company of 3 years on very good terms to pursue a new position just a few weeks ago. However, after just 2 weeks of working the CEO terminated my employment stating that i "falsified" my qualifications. I don't agree with it. He had contacted me on Linkedin desperate to fill a position since his senior engineer with 15+ years experience was leaving soon (He was only there 2 months). After an interview with his associates, who were not in the plumbing & fire protection field and did not ask me any technical questions, he extended a very high offer to me which i could not refuse. However, upon starting the job i had soon realized that the department was in shambles and i could not handle the work they were giving me.

I'm already over it, i just want to move on with my life and be more wary of the offers im given in the future. Luckily i have supportive friends, family, and former coworkers are even reaching out to me. I live with my parents and have no loans thankfully. My questions are:

-I still have Cobra insurance to accept from my last job, but its very expensive, is there another option?
-When searching for a new job, should i even mention this job since it only lasted 2 weeks? The next employer would appreciate my honesty if i just straight up told them i wasn't the right fit for the position and was laid off. But i also don't want it to hurt my chances of gaining employment. I doubt i even qualify for unemployment at this point.
-I'm looking at this as an opportunity to start fresh. With plumbing & fire protection engineering experience, what other paths could i take? Finance? Anything in the healthcare field? Maybe work for MTA or ConEd/National Grid? I have my EIT, plenty of 2D CAD experience, and knowledge of NFPA/plumbing codes.

Thank you all in this time of need.

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

Um, have you contacted your original employer to see if they'd like you back?

Now it may feel a bit like going back cap in hand or whatever, but assuming they still have the work you were doing; you were a competent employee and they haven't filled your position you may still be 'doing them a favor' in that they can start being productive with you immediately rather than spending time and money to find someone else who may take a while to get up to speed - if they work out at all.

As to healthcare, have you checked out whatever Obamacare has to offer in your vicinity?

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

Miataman: there is a ton of work in the NYC construction world right now. If you have good HVAC credentials, you should be able to get work with one of the mechanical firms fairly readily. Do not feel bad about your last place having blown up. The consulting and construction world can be chaotic, and this kind of thing happens all the time.

However I actually think your instinct to assess your options is a good one. Go interview for a finance job. I did the same thing after I got laid off a few years back. The money is substantially better in finance (triple-ish), but you have to work in a pretty emotionally unhealthy environment. I ultimately came back to engineering, but with the attitude that I had options and if I was going to get sucked into the mediocrity of my old firm again I would jump ship for finance. Happily I found a niche in consulting engineering which is very non-mediocre, so it worked out. I look at the guys back at my old firm, and I actually pity them for their blah-ness. They are plodding forward in an industry which is creeping backwards. You are at a point where you can make a big change, and you should seize this opportunity. Both private equity and M+A are hot right now...

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

(OP)
I want to leave the option of going back to my old company as a last resort. Even though i left on very good terms, I feel on a business level the atmosphere wouldn't be the same anymore if i went back. And i definitely would like to see what else is out there before i go that route. I will be looking into Obamacare today, just wanted to see what everybody's input was on that.

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

I agree with Kenat, call the old company.
Also, where you still live with your parents and, from the sounds of it, don't have a lot of overhead, take some time to look around at what other fields interest you. Then, when you do start interviewing for positions, take what you learned from this bad experience and ask questions during the interview to be sure that you won't end up in the same situation.
As for mentioning the 2 week position, I would just say you'd accepted a position that, in the end, fell through. The last thing you want to do is speak ill of that temporary employer.

Jeff Mirisola, CSWE
My Blog

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

Miataman: re: your old firm, you have to go forwards not backwards. You may be the returning prodigal son or the guy they can't trust. You have options!

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

I think you should give it a try with your old company, try to get an appointment with your former manager and explain that you left due to a bad judgment - all this is being happen just few weeks ago, I would not mention lay off





"If you want to acquire a knowledge or skill, read a book and practice the skill".

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

(OP)
Thanks for the advice all, you're right that the construction world is hot right now. I see people moving around jobs all the time these past 2 years. I guess i will have to contact my old boss sooner or later, i'd be using him as a reference for other jobs. Regarding finance, what is M + A? I've heard finance jobs are usually much higher paying but also much more cut throat. But i feel when i hear "finance" the only thing that pops into my head is investment banking, financial analysts, etc. I'm sure there's many more jobs out there in finance than those two.

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

Insurance: Shop! Shop! SHOP! COBRA is sooooo overpriced. snake

p.s. I think you may the first person I've seen use the words "Miata" and "man" in the same sentence.

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

(OP)
So another issue... in the heat of the moment of getting fired, i was in such a state of shock that i accidentally signed a piece of paper stating i lied to them about my qualifications and thats why im being fired. I know its most likely not an issue unless i was planning on suing them. But how else can this negatively impact me? Also, i heard you can revoke termination paper signatures because by law they know you are in shock and not thinking clearly?

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

M&A - Mergers and aquisitions.

Good luck,
Latexman

Technically, the glass is always full - 1/2 air and 1/2 water.

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

(OP)
Just setup a couple appointments with some lawyers tomorrow. Will see what they have to say about this.

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

I've been let go a few times. Fact of life. I've gotten good at it.

Last time, I stunned my boss and (and his) with grace and professionalism as they were giving me "the meeting" and "the terms". Left quite an impression, they talked about it for weeks.

Captain Hindsight says:

Quote (Captain Hindsight)

"Never, EVER sign anything the day it happens."

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

Multiple lawyers? Are you shopping for best value or something?

One thing I probably should have explicitly stated in my initial reply, I was assuming that you were basically happy at the original employer and it was just a case of grass looking greener that made you leave.

If you weren't happy at your original employer then running back tail between you legs may be even less attractive than I made it sound.winky smile

You also mentioned looking outside of engineering. If you don't have some level of passion (passion is perhaps a strong word but bear with me) for engineering then this may be a very good opportunity to get out of the field. While engineering pays pretty darn well for only requiring a bachelors degree, it's not a license to print money in most cases and if you're just doing it for the pay check you'll probably get disgruntled and dissatisfied sooner or later. Often get posts on this site from dissatisfied folks who fell into engineering by being good at math & physics in school but have no real interest in engineering and get sick of it after a while.

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

(OP)
Haha, nah i've just never had to call for a lawyer's services before so i wanted to "shop around" i guess. I actually enjoyed my last job, coworkers and bosses were excellent. Projects were fun, maybe a little easier than i thought now that this has happened. It was just the compensation i felt was not too good. I distinctly remember my old boss telling me to be careful because many employers like to throw out crazy offers just to get you in the door to fix a jam they're in. I should have listened, lesson learned. Honestly, i just want a decent paying job i enjoy without having to do crazy overtime or having to worry about getting fired. After this incident, im starting to feel that this is tough to find in this particular industry. Prove me wrong, i would love to hear otherwise. Thats why im wondering what other paths i could possibly take with my degree and experience.

"Never, EVER sign anything the day it happens".... i will take that to heart now...

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

Sounds like you need to call your old boss, tell him/her (s)he was right, and thank him/her for trying to give you that advice. Then end the conversation. If they miss you and feel like making an offer, no harm in listening, keep it in your back pocket.

Another life lesson you should learn ASAP is that your plan B always has to be more reliable than your plan A.

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

The thing about finance is that the money is way better. 5 years in you can be expecting to be making $250k vs engineering where you might expect say $80k. An engineer I used to work with quit and went into private equity at Bank of America and was getting $300k bonuses + base salary in his second year. Ok there is the occasional superstar engineer that makes $400k, but if you are a superstar like that in finance you are making $40MM. If you think that the reason you work is money, then its irrational to not go into finance. Engineering simply does not come close, and you have to do it at some level because either you can't get a job in finance (probably not the case) or because you like engineering better.

The finance career entry points are analyst, trader, or personal investment advisor. All three branches respect a quantitative background like engineering. Analyst is an entry point with the most branches down the track. Personal investment advisor used to be called "stock broker", and is basically a sales job with a commission. Your boss gets 1% of the amount of money under management, and its your job to cold call prospects. Trading isn't hot like it used to be a few years back, but still lots happening in that space.

Finance also has a bit of a locker room/frat house ambiance. Lots of hazing, yelling, and bullshit chatter about who's Hermes tie has been "earned". Personally I don't care for it, but for $400k/yr at age 40 its worth considering. In NYC this buys you a basic upper middle class life including private school for your kids, a 2000 sft apartment in a nice neighborhood, summers in the Hamptons, winters in the Caribbean, a spouse not working, a nanny, a cleaning lady, a therapist, a marriage counselor, an Audi for weekends, and a subscription to the NY Times. You know, the basics.

If you are an engineer in NYC at age 40 earning $100k/yr, you live in an 800 sft apartment in a sweatier neighborhood, your spouse works, your kids are in day care or with family, your vacations are domestic and short, your kids are in public school (which could tough depending on how "sweaty" your neighborhood is), a monthly subway ticket, and a cleaning lady. Its ok, but its hard to feel on top so you kind of have to derive some portion of your satisfaction from work. If you are in a situation in engineering where you have a dick boss making your life a misery, you know you are getting the worst of both worlds.

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

(OP)
My brother is worried and thinks because of whats happened, i'll have trouble finding another job... so calling my old boss back is sounding to be a better idea...

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

If you are afraid that this little hiccup will have an effect on future jobs, ask for an exit interview with one of your direct supervisors and get something in writing explaining the situation to have in your back pocket.

(Purely hypothetical) For all you know the CEO's nephew just graduated and wanted a job, so you being the newest employee was first to go.

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

(OP)
The thing is, my direct supervisor was the CEO of the company. The Plumbing & Fire protection dept only consisted of a part time senior adviser engineer, me, and another engineer that was forced to switch from HVAC to Plb&FP. I only answered to the CEO.

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

(OP)
Its interesting that you had the experience of working in finance Glass99. Good to know that option is there if it ever comes to that. Sometimes i wonder if i should go back to school and get a degree for nursing or PT/OT, etc. so i don't have to deal with all the corporate nonsense. But then that would set me back for years.

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

Call a lawyer regarding signed piece of paper, and talk to him about wrongful termination etcetera etcetera etcetera, not because you want to work there, but to leverage the, uh, ummm, hmmmm ..... not so nice guy- shall we say(?)- to release you're signed piece of paper. He had you sign it because he is afraid if something.
...
...
...uh, and I'm sure you don't need this, but, just in case....don't ever do something so stupid again.

And, by the way, be glad you're not working for that psycho any longer.

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

Do apply for unemployment immediately, just to get the ball rolling there. Tell them what happened honestly. They have probably heard of the psycho who fired you already, and they will make their own determination about your eligibility.

The unemployment office can also help you tune up your job-finding skills.

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

Quote (MikeHalloran)

The unemployment office can also help you tune up your job-finding skills.
Excepting blue collar jobs, I have never found this to be the case (despite their requirements to let them "help you"). The unemployment office never has anyone working there that is keen enough on true engineering work, so your resume will look mumbo jumbo to them. Some of the suggestions they have made over the years to make me more "marketable" were so unbelievably bad I have flat out told them "There is no way on Earth I would ever destroy this record of my career by doing the asinine things you claim will help me get a job." I'm an electrical engineer who does software/firmware, so to them I should be thankful for a job working at the local power company... "It's electrical, and that fits your degree."

I look at the unemployment office as a necessary evil with a slew of hoops I must jump through to get meager financial aid in dire circumstances... but they are far from helpful or useful.

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

When I was laid off in 2011, I was compelled to go through a job-hunting skills workshop. I never had to do this before. This amounted to little more than ritual humiliation.

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

Yep, if you don't have a clue they may be able to help you get up to a very basic level. Beyond that for professional type work, or at least technical stuff they are at best limited at worst counter productive.

In fairness this goes not just to the unemployment office but also to some of the 'resume doctor' type folks who claim to be able to spruce up your resume & certainly applies to many of the news & web articles about how to write your resume.

Most of them are far too general to be of much help in a moderately specialized field like ours.

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

faced this a few times from both sides over the years.

-having left a company I was called by them three times over the following 5 years to see if I was still happy with my career move and to let me know there was a spot for me if I wanted to come back. 15 years later when my last company closed they called again to see if I needed a position. Lesson learned? Don't burn bridges, be professional when resigning

-having had employees leave me and want to come back - two of them did me a favour in resigning and I didn't hire them back when the tried to return. Three i hired back with no hard feelings. You never know if one day you will be working for them

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

(OP)
I am about to speak with my old boss in a few. Very good advice here all around. I'm glad i didn't burn my bridges at my last job. The dilemma now is that i face the possibility of returning to my former position with lower than market value compensation and projects, now apparent to me, are not challenging or broad enough. On the other side of the fence, i could be searching for a new job for months before i find anything... and from the looks of it i will have zero income that entire time.

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

You could possibly return as a contract employee, with the understanding that you are looking for better work.

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

(OP)
Hmm never thought of that TheTick but that sounds like something i can discuss with him. By the way, i spoke with an employment lawyer. He said the paper i signed doesn't mean much, just that it will be harder to claim unemployment. He told me this is not an uncommon situation, and that most people would just leave this past job off the resume.

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

The piece of paper ypou signed could have an impact on when you are elegible for unemployment. I've previously had to hire counsel for my wife wheen she was wrongfully terminated and the employer stated it was for cause. Dumb move by the former employer, as my wife was the accountant for the firm.

My first consulting job I encountered the same situation. Having pictues with farm animals (not literally, but I was dealing with a jackass)translated into a nice 5 gigure settlement, plus immediate unemployment for being fired without cause. Funny thing, 25 years later this same jackass came to me looking to drum up consu;lting business. Have to admit, I was not above intense verbal disparagement until the idiot left my office.

Either don't deal with them again or be ready to play hardball.

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

quoted
The dilemma now is that i face the possibility of returning to my former position with lower than market value compensation and projects, now apparent to me, are not challenging or broad enough. On the other side of the fence, i could be searching for a new job for months before i find anything... and from the looks of it i will have zero income that entire time.
unquoted

Don't be picky. If you have any chance to be hired back in the old company just go for it without any conditions.
Once you secure this, after that everything is possible.

I wish you good luck.

"If you want to acquire a knowledge or skill, read a book and practice the skill".

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

Well, I wouldn't take the 'cap in hand' approach too far - depending on your risk tolerance.

You've shown them that you are willing to leave for better remuneration, so you might at least think if there's a way to mention that was the reason to your old boss and see if there's anything you can work out between you to avoid you being in the same situation a year from now. However, I'm not sure I have the negotiating skill so to pull that one off so take my idea with a pinch of salt.

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

I'd expect the elephant in the room will be that if they want him back at all, they will make an offer that is higher than what he was making when he left. Even just a small raise would be needed, so both sides feel a little more comfortable with the arrangement.

No matter who has the upper hand, it would be awkward to say "can I come back, and can you pay me more?" Much more natural to say "thanks for the advice, you were right it didn't work out" and then leave it to the employer to make an offer. Obviously if it's for the same salary, they know he will still be job hunting, so what's the point?

I left my previous job with a written offer (for a higher salary) in hand to come back any time. That number would have definitely kept me there had it come around in my previous negotiations, which ended with me making it crystal clear that I was looking around (risky so I wouldn't suggest that.) The fact that it took me putting in my notice to get the offer did not sit well, not my style (which I had also made clear!) so they knew I wasn't going to stay. But, no hard feelings and I've still got that letter.

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

(OP)
Its a tough situation indeed, but i'd rather have some awkwardness than long term unemployment right now. I just spoke with him, there's a young guy that was given an offer they want to train from the ground up. So it would depend on whether he accepts the position or not right now. In the mean time, i'll be applying all around.

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

MiataMan,
You're still in college?

Chris, CSWA
SolidWorks 14
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

(OP)
Ctopher,
I've been out for a few years now.

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

The quick time frame probably makes going back to your old company a little easier. You can come in "cap in hand", "tail between legs", and just state the new job wasn't what was professed and did not work out and that you really enjoyed working with old employer. (A few little "white lies" won't hurt)

IMHO you have little chance of coming on board "on contract" with the company knowing you are looking.

It all depends on how tolerant you of the "hat in hand" method and how much you liked your prior job.

I really don't see the downside of asking to come back (except getting a rude NO in response). But to me that beats the hard effort to find a new job and all the no responses / cold leads you get.

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

(OP)
Good point GHartmann. Going back would definitely beat out having to go through the process of looking for a job again. I've been doing a lot of research, talking with people, applying to some jobs. And from what i see, although the economy is much better today, its probably still going to take some time to find a job again. I talked to some friends who went into finance instead. They're definitely making good money, decent work environment, but from what they're telling me it sounds like the work they do is pretty boring. And if they get laid off they don't really have much marketable skills to rebound. The other option im looking into is, hopefully getting my old job back and start taking pre-req classes to get into nursing or related school down the road. My brother is a nurse and he is quite satisfied with his career. I love engineering, but sometimes the industry really puts a bad taste in my mouth.

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

(OP)
Welp, its come down to this. Had a talk with my boss. He knows i have an interview on Monday but he will not talk to the owners about bringing me back unless i cancel that interview. Tough situation, but i'll most likely just have to accept his offer at this point. I have no ground to stand on really.

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

Truth-telling is a time-honored and important norm. There are enough versions of the truth out there anyways, why generate knowingly invalid ones?

I also like the XIV (and last ever!) Dalai Lama, and this quote attributed to him:

“Know the rules well, so you can break them effectively.”

Self and family interest is important too. Are you a significant or sole source of income for your family? Can you get by on $405 a week if you get unemployment sorted out?

Will your old boss be meeting with you at the same time as the interview?

I may be wrong, but it sounds like you have an offer to talk to the owners, and not a job offer from the old boss. Do they think you'll stay on the farm once you've tried to leave? Your old boss is asking you to be open to being screwed 2X (no old job, no new interview).

If he thinks (P1) you have cancelled the interview, he asks the owners to give you your job (P2). Chance you get your old job: P1*P2.

Chance to get new job: 0 if you cancel interview, P3 if you don't.

Maybe instead of view it as a yes/no game, change the plays.

Stick up for yourself- tell him that you don't think it's reasonable to be unconcerned about paying the rent or buying food. Ask him to imagine your circumstance.

Reschedule the interview. Can you reschedule the interview to give your old boss preference?

So I'd try to bend things here, unless you have a written offer for your old job. Too easy to be screwed 2X

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

Your old boss can also lose face here, if they get you your old job back, and you have a new one in 2 weeks, or turn the offer of the old job down, that looks bad too.

You might try to negotiate preference for the old job with your old boss. It's hard to expect a person sincere about their own self interest to pass up a good interview for a maybe with the old job. And it's a maybe until it's ink on paper.

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

(OP)
It'll be fine. I figure i already took one risk and it completely blew up in my face, so i think the best thing for me right now is just to go back to my old job. Stick it out another year or so, get my PE, try real hard to learn as much as possible and figure it out from there. The economy is better but i don't think its good enough to the point where it'd be a good idea to be job hunting while unemployed. Regarding having the written offer in hand, normally i would but i trust my boss. I've known him for three years and he is a very good guy. He is a principal and one of the founding members of the firm so he can actually independently hire who he wants.

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

I really like stories with a happy ending ...:)

"If you want to acquire a knowledge or skill, read a book and practice the skill".

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

You are very fortunate to have an old job to go back to. Many don't.

Maui

RE: Tips for getting back up on feet after being laid off

2
(OP)
I'm happy to say that im back at my old job, its a festivus miracle! If another opportunity ever lands on my lap again down the road, i will be sure to examine it much more thoroughly before making a decision. I'd like to thank you all for your helpful advice in what could have been a disaster in my career.

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