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izamil (Mechanical) (OP)
23 Nov 02 17:57
We are currently designing a horizontal pressure vessel 20’ diameter X 191’ long. We are designing this vessel to rest on two saddle supports. A fixed, and a sliding saddle.

On the sliding saddle side, we are contemplating if we are to allow for slotted holes for thermal expansion or should we just have the sliding saddle rest on the concrete plinth without any guiding anchors?

I would appreciate your assistance,
Helpful Member!(3)  LSThill (Mechanical)
24 Nov 02 6:48
izamil (Mechanical)

did you mean 20 feet dia. by 191 inches (16 feet) not 191 feet.

What  Seismic (earthquake) location if in a zone 3 and 4 you may need FEA ANALYSIS of your saddle support design

Leonard
izamil (Mechanical) (OP)
24 Nov 02 7:26
it is 20 feet internal diamter X 191 feet tangent to tangent length.

Seismic Zone Factor for Saudi Arabia is Zero.
LSThill (Mechanical)
24 Nov 02 18:54
izamil (Mechanical)

RE: same as SHGUM 1 GOSP 1977. southern area production ABQUA.

LSThill (Mechanical)
24 Nov 02 19:35
What is the design temp =  ? and design pres = ?
Helpful Member!  prex (Structural)
25 Nov 02 2:38
The minimum to say is that, for such a length, the sliding saddle should be correctly guided sideways. Slotted holes is a possible choice (using bolts with shoulders in order to avoid blocking the slide), but of course their length will depend on the working temperature of the vessel. Also preferred are PTFE pads and a stainless steel liner welded beneath the saddle plate.
I join isthill in his last questions: to completely define a solution at least pressure and temperature conditions need be known. Suppose the design pressure is quite high, otherwise wall thickness is likely to be determined by far by the support system. Is a multiple saddle support (one fixed, the others sliding) a viable alternative?

prex

http://www.xcalcs.com
Online tools for structural design

TD2K (Chemical)
25 Nov 02 10:58
I've worked over in Saudi and I know they have more than a few of these vessels in this size range.  

So, what saddle design do you use elsewhere?  How have they worked?  What sorts of problems have your engineering or Operations people seeen?
izamil (Mechanical) (OP)
25 Nov 02 11:27
Isthil, thanks for the assistance, the design pressure Gauge 300 PSI at 240F temperature.

SHEDGUM GOSP in the Eastern Province of Saudi Arabia is very well known to me. I am currently building those vessels in WATIF NORTH if you know where that is, and naturally (you should know for who).

izamil (Mechanical) (OP)
25 Nov 02 11:27
Isthil, thanks for the assistance, the design pressure Gauge 300 PSI at 240F temperature.

SHEDGUM GOSP in the Eastern Province of Saudi Arabia is very well known to me. I am currently building those vessels in QATIF NORTH if you know where that is, and naturally (you should know for who).

izamil (Mechanical) (OP)
25 Nov 02 11:57
Dear prex,
I have just sent the design temp at pressure. Naturally we do use those SS liners you mention with the PTFE pads.

Appreciate any input including what you refer to as the bolt with shoulders. I am not sure I understand you there.

Thanks in advance for your assistance.
izamil (Mechanical) (OP)
25 Nov 02 13:27
Dear TD2K,
I do not know what saddle design people use elsewhere. But we tend to (on long vessels such as those) have only two saddles (fixed and sliding) with the necessary liners on the sliding part of the saddle.

We are manufacturers and as such I do not know what the operations personnel may have been  facing in terms of problems with saddles. I do not know of any, as if there any existent, we would certainly be the first to know.

Where about have you been working in Saudi if you don't mind me asking?
LSThill (Mechanical)
25 Nov 02 14:14
Dear izamil (Mechanical)

For the Pipeline Project PLNT 256 vessel were 5m dia by 40m long the piping set the fix end with no problems.

L. S. Thill
TD2K (Chemical)
25 Nov 02 19:38
Izamil, I was in Dhahran with the Process Engineering Division with Aramco several years back.
prex (Structural)
26 Nov 02 2:24
Bolts with shoulder, may be done as follows:
-suppose the anchor bolt coming out of concrete is M24 and the sliding plate thickness is 20 mm
-on the anchor bolt put a piece of pipe (preferably stainless steel) with ID 25 mm and OD say 30 mm
-length of this piece of pipe is 21 mm
-width of the slots in the saddle is 32 mm
-now when you tighten the nut (with washer) you don't compress the saddle plate against the foundation and it stays free to move.

prex

http://www.xcalcs.com
Online tools for structural design

LSThill (Mechanical)
26 Nov 02 17:23
http://www.codeware.com/papers.html

These historic papers in pressure vessel design are offered for your information:

• "A Proposed Method for Finding Stress and Allowable Pressure in Cylinders with Radial Nozzles," PVP Vol. 399

• The L P Zick paper for horizontal vessels on saddles

• The Boardman paper on cone-to-cylinder juncture stresses

• "Vibrations of Vertical Pressure Vessels" by C E Freese

• "The Design of Vertical Pressure Vessels Subjected to Applied Forces" by E O Bergman

• "Evaluation of Percent Critical Damping of Process Towers" by Karamchandani, Gupta, and Pattbiraman

• "Stresses in a Pressure Vessel With a Conical Head" by G W Watts and H A Lang

All papers are self-expanding zipped or Adobe pdf files.
 
TD2K (Chemical)
26 Nov 02 21:21
Isthill, NICE link.
izamil (Mechanical) (OP)
27 Nov 02 18:45
thanks Isthill, good and resourceful link.
LSThill (Mechanical)
27 Nov 02 21:14
Please check this out

http://www.paulin.com/Downloads

Software Downloads, File Name, Size, Description
 
README.TXT 3K Important installation information (7/17/02)

FPBOS.ZIP 56,765K  FE Pipe and BOS Fluids (10/15/02)

4.109ab allpro.zip 25,203K AxiPRO1.2 Beta and NozzlePRO (10/15/02)
4.109a
fe4105.pdf 11,261K FE/Pipe 4.105 Document Addenda (9/10/02)

samples.exe 232,658K  FE Pipe Sample Projects (7/17/02)

hillside.zip 192K Hillside Stiffness Application (9/12/02)

BOS Fluids 2d CFD Calculation.doc 4,636K SPLASH Bos Fluids Documentation (Draft) (10/15/02)

bos1c.doc 12,000K BOS Fluids Beta Chapter C (11/09/02)
 
API 618reva.doc 5,566K BOS Fluids API 618 Documentation (Draft) (10/15/02)

Leonard S. Thill
LSThill (Mechanical)
27 Nov 02 23:44
Pressure Vessel Design & Analysis

Companion Guide to the ASME Boiler & Pressure Vessel Coad
by: K. R. Rao
ISBN: 0791801640

  A comprehensive two volume set discussing a multitude of topics related to pressure vessels and piping.
Guidebook for the Design of ASME Section VIII Pressure Vessels
by: Farr & Jawad
ISBN: 0791800555

  A good book for insight into the ASME vessel code. The text includes many sample calculations on the application of the code.
Pressure Vessel Design Handbook
by: Henry Bednar
ISBN: 08946403X

  A more advanced vessel text with derivations of equations from basic theory.
Pressure Vessel Handbook
by: Eugene F. Megyesy
  A basic text showing the major equations used. Includes many tables, sketches, and examples.
Pressure Vessel Design Manual
by: Dennis R. Moss
ISBN: 0884156478

  A basic text showing the major equations used. Includes many tables, sketches, and examples.
Process Equipment Design
by: Brownell & Young
ISBN: 0471113190

  An excellent text covering all aspects of pressure vessel design. Also includes chapters on aboveground storage tanks, high pressure vessels, and multilayer vessels.
Structural Analysis and Design of Process Equipment
by: Jawad & Farr
ISBN: 0471624713

  A comprehensive text convering the theory behind the design of pressure vessels and tanks.
Theory and Design of Pressure Vessels
by: John F. Harvey
ISBN: 0412986515

  A comprehensive text on the stresses in pressure vessels. Topics also include fracture, discontinuity stresses, design/construction consequences, and buckling.
LSThill (Mechanical)
30 Nov 02 9:33
izamil (Mechanical)

PLEASE CHECK THIS OUT

http://www.codeware.com/docs/TrainingFEPipe.pdf

Leonard
LSThill (Mechanical)
30 Nov 02 16:45
izamil (Mechanical)

PAST SEMINAR NOTEBOOKS AVAILABLE

Available at $75.00 per set are:
1994 ASME B31.3 Piping Code Seminar
2001 Piping Design & Pipe Stress Analysis Seminar
2001 Pressure Vessel Seminar - Sec. VIII - Div. 1, 2, 3
Order your seminar notebook from KATHY SMITH at 713-523-4565 or FAX 713-523-6767
and send your check along with your request for the set(s) that you need to
South Texas Section ASME at P.O. Box 25045, Houston, Texas 77265.
izamil (Mechanical) (OP)
1 Dec 02 11:23
Thank you very much Ishill

You have been of great help.
Shahin71 (Chemical)
4 Dec 02 3:16
lsthill (Mechanical)
 Regarding the seminars notes is there any bank details so we can send money by DD or TT instead of mail.mail takes long time.

 shahin71
LSThill (Mechanical)
4 Dec 02 7:06
izamil (Mechanical)and Shahin71 (Chemical)

Boiler Pressure Vessel prep course.  
The best source of information concerning the course is our website at http://ccs.goivytech.net/boiler_pressure/index.html .

Lea Anne Crooks
Executive Director
Corporate and Community Services
Phone:  812-298-2367
Fax:  812-877-1184
 
LSThill (Mechanical)
4 Dec 02 13:22
izamil (Mechanical)and Shahin71 (Chemical)

please check this http://www.thill.biz

Leonard

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