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Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??
11

Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

(OP)
I'm get bored easily with writing. I would prefer course with a lot of calculations.Between Mechanical Engineering and Electrical&Electronic Engineering(undergraduate) which has more calculations.

I know courses such as much Maths and Physics could suite me better but I'm looking other factors, like job prospects.

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

You want a quantitative analysis of which field uses more math? Really? ponder

Just go for the field you enjoy most and don't worry about such piddling things (that can't be quantified because it depends upon so many various factors).

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

The direct answer, is that on my course, the electrical guys did more sums, but mechanical did more calculations. Watching an electrical guy learning to use steam tables (the first two years were largely common, they did thermo, we did power electrics and electronics) was hysterical. Fluids/aero seemed to be the area for maths, but these days I expect they are all colorful fluid dynamics.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

(OP)
MacGyverS2000,

I have seen a lot of people started courses they like but some of them ended up drop out and some after graduating they start to study something different.And they wished they could do more research before started they courses.

It doesn't harm anything to sit down for a few minutes looking for advises but it makes a big different in your future life.

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

(OP)
And Chemical Engineering?

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

My EE friends typically did more 'math' on a day to day basis, which usually amounted to setting up a set of equations for a different case of a problem that had been solved millions of times before in pretty much the same way.

My EE friends have gotten into big trouble when they tried to apply their usual problem solving techniques to ME-type problems without understanding the limitations of existing solutions.

Example: beam theory gives very inaccurate answers for large deflections because the classical equations were derived using small-angle approximations.

Example: fluid flow analogies are often used when teaching basic DC electricity, but real fluid resistances are square-law devices, and electrons don't freeze, boil, or cavitate.

On the few occasions when an ME has to resort to math instead of a hammer, the math can be pretty tough.

As Greg said, computers have changed that some, but there are still an infinite number of ways to inadvertently induce a computer to lie to you.

... and no matter which degree you get, you'll probably end up doing something from another specialty, or something that hasn't even been invented yet, so focus on optimizing your learning process, because you've only just begun.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

Sorry, but your question is absurdly broad. You can do almost no calculations on a day-to-day basis, to routinely doing 3D PDEs, just depending on your subdiscipline. Certain subdisciplines like thermal and stress analysis are probably more loaded with math than the run of the mill. Similarly, analog circuit analysis or RF comm might require more math. But, even then, there are nuances...

TTFN
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Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers

Of course I can. I can do anything. I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

In my experience (ME), most of the "writing" was reports (design, lab, project). Non-engineering electives will probably contain similar amounts of writing, whatever course they hang from. But the core engineering courses where mostly concepts and mathematical models, not actual calcs.

- Steve

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

4
Then learn to not be bored with writing.

Successful engineers need to know how to write. Write well and write clearly.

Engineers that cannot write do not advance.

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

"Engineers that cannot write do not advance", truer words were never spoken. If writing does not "suite" [sic] you, then you probably need to become a plumber or an electrician.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. —Galileo Galilei, Italian Physicist

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

That's a bit extreme. There are lots of engineers that aren't good writers. Which is tolerable, because there are others that are, just as there are others who are better public speakers. A good manager is someone who can take a group of people with disparate skills and blends everything into a cohesive and effective whole.

TTFN
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Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers

Of course I can. I can do anything. I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

2
Any engineer who can't produce documents which are technically accurate and grammatically precise will struggle to maintain credibility, especially in a consulting role or in a senior position. Careless use of language in a document opens up questions about the accuracy of the technical content; if the author doesn't feel the need to write with precision, does he have a similar approach to his calculations?

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

Writing is communication. If you can't communicate, you're useless, no matter how brilliant your calculations are.

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

Google "What career uses the most math?".

Good luck,
Latexman

Technically, the glass is always full - 1/2 air and 1/2 water.

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

I've had engineers on my projects that could not communicate in writing. Invariably they became de facto (if not de jure) technicians for other team members. The non-writer would feed data and calculations to another engineer who would write the spec/design/installation/training document and defend it. Next project the writer was the team lead and the non-writer was the tech for someone else. Over time those guys find themselves "supporting" younger and younger engineers who can write a coherent sentence. First "staff readjustment" and the non-writer is seen as someone we can safely get rid of. I've seen this over and over. It just doesn't matter how good you are at "engineering" (whatever that means), if you can't communicate your ideas you might as well not have them.

That may be "extreme" IRstuff, but it is very real.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. —Galileo Galilei, Italian Physicist

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

I guess I've never seen that particular situation in practice. Most of the engineers I've seen who were laid off generally had other problems besides communications, i.e., they weren't even that good as engineers. Good engineers are often forgiven for lots of sins; we once had a very talented ECL designer who REEKED to the point where we would always attempt to interact with him upwind of the nearest A/C register, just to make sure we would pass out from the malodorous environment. There was another engineer who was very good at communications, but was a completely mediocre engineer, and a tyrant and backstabber, to boot. We had a great going away party for her, but somehow, we must have forgotten to give her an invitation winky smile

In any case, I do agree that communications ability should be cultivated and practiced; the more assets and skills you have, the better off in general you are.


It should pointed out to the OP that pretty much ANY job can benefit from having communications skills. Even if you were a math professor, your tenure might be dependent on publishing.

TTFN
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Of course I can. I can do anything. I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

I'm on board with zdas04 on this one. If you can't communicate effectively - even print clearly - you create a level of confusion and inefficiency within the team that offsets your engineering talent, and that situation worsens with time. It's hard to plan or run a project when you already have to build in a "workaround" to compensate for the lack of communication skills by others. One thing that helps solve this is to mandate the preparation of calculation summaries or cover sheets, in which the originator has to explain the purpose, the scope, the assumptions, the methodology, the results, the implications and the recommendations pertaining to the calculation. After about a year of doing that, even to thiose otherwise disinclined to write reports, technical report writing (e.g., preparation of a DBM) becomes pretty straightforward.

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

Agree with Zdas;

To me what is of a worry here is the OP general mindset hidden behind the question itself.
In other words, the "I want to do more calculations..." thing means doing calculation for the sake of doing calculation.

Doing calculation should not be a goal but simply a mean. The goal should be to contribute and solve the said problem.
It can be by writing a piece of document (I try to improve my english and writing skills at the moment for the same reasons given above), communicating verbally or doing maths - whatever, it should not matter.

I would not be comforted working with colleagues who would increase the number of calculation just for the sake of it, I would feel I am working with amateurs as their attitude is not driven "by purpose".

That being said, I am not saying calculations are useless; tools for example can guide decisions and can be critical sometimes.

I think being driven by purpose is a powerfull thing so that when it determines that calculation/tools are indeed needed, it drives like hell technical advancement and progress in the particular field ultimately resulting in availability of powerfull tools, think for example about CFD codes, turbulent simulations, etc.











"If you want to acquire a knowledge or skill, read a book and practice the skill".

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

Calculate all you want, if you can't write then you won't be a respected professional in any engineering field.

I'm bored with a lot of things that I'm not good at. When I recognize that I could get paid for them, suddenly they become much more interesting and I develop the skill. Very simple calculation to be done there, I could even make a graph.

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

in the college: both quite a lot, probably EE more.
on the job: usually both 0, especially advanced math (variational, differential...)

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

Well, the OP will have no job at all unless he can solve at least one equation for his boss: "Can this design be sold to a real customer for more money than it costs to hire him for the period of time needed to do the design?"

It's an odd question: What the bloody hell do the colleges teach nowdays?
"How to Sit in a Computer Lab and Look at Pretty Finite Element Screenshots All Day 101, 102, 201, 202, 301, 302, 401, 402?"

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

The math for mech and elect is largely the same except that ME math encounters more non linear phenomena which makes it more difficult.

Both EE and ME do advanced control system stuff which to me is the most sophisticated math I have encountered in Engineering.

If you wan't math specialize in control systems. I am still trying to get a firm grasp on that dmded Kalman filter and its control counterpart the LQR.

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

In respect to writing + communication - we should not discourage maturestudent14 excessively. Engineers still get hired primarily because they have technical skill. Most engineers are not super strong in the communication department, and the rest of the world does calibrate for that. In fact, if you are both semi-competent technically and have the communication ability of a normal person, you are a superstar. Elon Musk can barely string a sentence together, but he's successful enough.

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

" In fact, if you are both semi-competent technically and have the communication ability of a normal person, you are a superstar"

You are setting the bar really high....

"If you want to acquire a knowledge or skill, read a book and practice the skill".

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

I came of age as a professional in the late 90's where the whole technical world was fetishizing project management and minimizing technical ability. I drank the Kool Aid and spent a bunch of effort developing my empathy skills and so forth to the point where I was considering quitting engineering. There is no doubt that that human interaction is an important part of an engineer's work, but I feel like the pendulum swung too far in that direction and tech skills became undervalued. My shtick now is that I am pushier about selling non-tech people on the value of technology. The point is that you can do some amazing stuff with technology that is not obvious to a purely people person.

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

My background is signal processing (and wavelet-based compression, to be more exact), one of the most math-intensive fields outside of theoretical mathematics... ask me how much calculation I do on a daily basis? Zero. If you want calculations, go into a theoretical field and you'll be content as a cat at the fireplace. But wondering how many calculations happen on a day-to-day basis when you're on the job? Spend a few years in pretty much any chosen field and you'll find it's about real work, not number-crunching... numbers are a small portion of the real work, so worrying about how much you'll get to do is like wondering what an extra 50% of 1% feels like.

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

In a thread about writing and communicating, I'm laughing at this part:

"we once had a very talented ECL designer who REEKED to the point where we would always attempt to interact with him upwind of the nearest A/C register, just to make sure we would pass out from the malodorous environment."

Not sure why you'd want to pass out, but on the assumption that you did want to, I don't think standing upwind of an AC register would help accomplish that.

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

English teachers taught me how to write. Science teachers taught me the importance of effective written communication.

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

If there was a job where you do calculations all day, someone would automate the process with a program or a spreadsheet. Then the job turns into data entry, and writing reports on the results.

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

In fairness though, there are decent jobs which are primarily about analysis. In my early career I worked a couple of them. I worked on a team of 5 or so guys in Detroit doing finite element analysis of car crashes. Out of 8 hours in a day, at least 7 were spent doing numbers. It was really solid nerd work, involving frequent consideration of Johnson-Cook strain rate hardening and model convergence. The pay was fine at the time at least. Even now 15 years later I spend a goodly chunk of the day with analysis, calculations, drawings, and technical research. I would say that the automation and off shoring of calculations probably reached a plateau at least 5 years ago, and there is still a lot of human work in doing analysis. There will never be a substitute for a clever engineer conceptualizing a messy physical situation in a simple way.

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

One thing you will have to do regardless of EE or ME is get at least a masters degree if you want more math
in your life.

Oh and another thing. Be willing to move to where cutting edge work is being done.

Then you will find a job doing Matlab all day every day and heaven will be your reward.

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

How come the choices are between Mechanical, Electrical and Chemical? Specifically what do you mean by doing calculations? I think you are going to find all engineering uses a lot of math, its just how much can you automate to be efficient. Anytime I do calcs while my business partner is around, he always says here let me make a spreadsheet for that, because he doesn't want to do math.

B+W Engineering and Design | Los Angeles Civil Engineer and Structural Engineer http://bwengr.com

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

2dye4: yes, engineers in new and progressive fields have a much better time of things than folks in mature fields. If you are just sizing up a beam/pump/transformer in an application which has been built for decades, then there is always someone who is going to be able to eyeball it.

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

I was going to point out signal processing as being one area where a good deal of real live maths is done every day, if you are developing the scripts, rather than just using them. Even more fun is the following scenario (which repeats round here, with variations, once a year on average): "we took data on X channels. N channels failed as, or before, we smashed the car into the wall (or other such scenario). How do we estimate Y?" Answers you don't give are "Buggered if I know" (Guru status instantly revoked) "Repeat the test but this time switch all the amps on" (Right on the second point, but that means some other engineer loses their test car). The right answer is "Give me all the data, and answer all my stupid questions, and let's see what we can find". As somebody said above, it's all Matlab.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

Maturestudent14, mathematics is one of many tools that you will use to help arrive at the answers that you have been tasked to find during the course of your career. Apparently you enjoy using math. This is good. But math alone is not enough to get the job done in most cases. As others have pointed out, your communication skills (or lack of them) will have a much bigger impact on how effective you are at your job in just about any engineering role, from intern to vice president. Good communicators can get their ideas across to others easily by speaking to them or by expressing their ideas in in a clear and concise way through writing. It is an essential skill that will serve you well in your workplace.

Maui

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

I would say good communication skills and mathematical ability are both overrated in comparison with common sense. Doesn't help much to be able to clearly communicate that you are an idiot.

Being good at mathematics is not much of a benefit unless you have enough common sense to properly apply equations and establish boundary conditions, and research whether the work, or similar, has previously been accomplished. Why solve the Mathieu equations when there is a free app?

What helps most, I believe, is being able to work in a profession you enjoy-you'll do much better. I went to school for philosophy and hated it. Took enough English for a minor, did technical writing, speech writing, etc., and hated it. Transferred from graduate mathematics to undergraduate mechanical engineering and loved it.

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

If you want a nice run of math for a semester, find out if your university offers any of the following classes:

-Control Systems Engineering (without computer aided engineering)
Anyone else remember manually plotting lotus diagrams. Because I sure as hell do - I hope you like Laplace transforms.

-Computer aided engineering, computer aided manufacturing, computer aided drafting Fundamentals (Going through FEA and curve equations by hand to understand more how the computer does it).
I hope you like complex IDEs without the help of Mr. Laplace and his wonderful coordinates system.

-Fundamentals of Mechanical Systems (thermo, fluid dynamics, and heat/mass/momentum transfer all rolled into a nice, non computer aided ball).
Three words - Cameron. Hydraulic. Data.

-Any 400+ level math or physics course
Why stick to engineering when you want to have a headache. Venture out of your field and into the theoretical world. Then into the bar.


The pattern here, if you haven't caught it already, is the lack of computer aids - Any branch of engineering can be maths intensive. Talk to the professors - find the old schoolers who think that computer aided engineering is a soft skill to be learned in the workplace. Take their courses.

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

Actually, if you really enjoy a challenge, sign up for a senior level physics course in electromagnetic field theory. Most physics majors who are required to take this course have not had vector calculus yet. And vector calculus is a requirement for understanding the physics presented in this course. So they have to struggle with learning vector calc at the same time they try to muddle their way through Maxwell's equations. For many students it leaves your head spinning.

Maui

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

Signal processing, control systems... and if you are really a glutton for punishment, try a deep course in Probability and Stochastic Methods... that'll put hair on your chest!

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

My hell was a graduate course in Statistical Thermodynamics.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. —Galileo Galilei, Italian Physicist

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

Queue theory was interesting. The rest of the compulsory Operations Management "option" was dull though.

- Steve

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

We might be confusing high level math courses with "calculations." When it starts to have more letters than numbers (my cutoff is diff eq) then I have a hard time considering it a calculation.

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

I suggest you consider looking into structural engineering as a possibility. It wont be to hard to find a job doing demand/capacity (ASCE 7/AISC 360) calcs all day long.

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

Aerodynamics, not the nice simple 'fluid flow' stuff etc. but the 3rd/4th year class where you get to develop all the algorithms etc. to simulate full Navier Stokes Eqn that various CFD approaches use.

That one gave me brain ache for sure, but at least I learnt why we had to learn about Grad, Div & Curl in 2nd year math.

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RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

Kenat, did you ever read the book titled "Div, Grad, Curl and All That" by H. M. Schey? Here's a link to it:

http://www.amazon.com/Div-Grad-Curl-All-That/dp/03...

It's a terrific book for teaching yourself vector calculus. The author realized that he needed to write this book after his own physics students would loudly boo him each time he wrote vector calc on the classroom board. It's not a dull book either - the author actually makes the subject entertaining. Try doing that with just about any other advanced math course.

Maui

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

If you like to do math, instead of focusing on which discipline of engineering has more math you should look into the types of jobs and fields where engineers are more likely to do the kind of work you are interested in and what type of education you will need to get there. As far as the education part, an MS at a minimum is needed to open the doors to the most math intensive jobs. I hate to bust your bubble, but the real world of engineering bears little resmeblance to school where you sit around and solve problems and get to do some really cool stuff all day. No sir. In the real world of engineering much of the day of a typical engineer involves hours of grinding boredom doing tasks that could probably be done by an intelligent high school graduate. In my experience, most engineers don't do work that is highly complex and technical in nature. Take project engineering for example. The math you do (if any) as a project engineer will mostly revolve around project budgets. Even in a lot of design engineering roles you won't find much math. There is a good chance that your design work will consist primarily of designing variations of an already existing product. A lot of times a company will have well established guidelines or rules for design that are based on years of experience of designing successful and not so successful products. In other cases the design methodology is more build and test than analyze and build.

In my work I would say that I get to do a lot more of the cool "engineering" type stuff than most. I got an MS degree and drove my career in a way to get what I want. My skills and education typically get me the cream of the crop jobs at my company. With all that being said, I still do a lot of grass cutting- spending hours reading specifications, going to meetings, dealing with manufacturing issues, dealing with vendor issues, dealing with customer issues, and did I mention writing reports? All that analysis and calculation work I do needs to be documented somewhere. In any given year I might write two or three reports that approach 200 pages in length. Still, I can probably count on one hand the number of times I have used graduate level type math in my career. Most of the math I do is on the complexity level of high school algebra or trigenometry. Most of the equations I use come right out of undergraduate textbooks. Most of the heavy lifting is done by FEA, CFD, Excel, Mathcad, and MATLAB.

RE: Mech Eng and EEE which one has more calculations??

I expected a different question based on your handle name.

Chris, CSWA
SolidWorks 14
SolidWorks Legion

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