Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
(OP)
Hi,
I am making a carabiner which won't be suitable for climbing, but designed mainly to carry keys.
In order to achieve a beautiful contrast, I want to make the pin/rivet of the carabiner out of copper.
Would that create a problem with the longevity of the carabiner? Is copper not strong enough to sustain the everyday use of a carabiner keychain?
Best,
Panos
I am making a carabiner which won't be suitable for climbing, but designed mainly to carry keys.
In order to achieve a beautiful contrast, I want to make the pin/rivet of the carabiner out of copper.
Would that create a problem with the longevity of the carabiner? Is copper not strong enough to sustain the everyday use of a carabiner keychain?
Best,
Panos





RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
Maybe you could use a brass, still has some color but more strength.
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Plymouth Tube
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
Edstainless, actually the manufacturer suggested brass because copper wouldn't work and we are making the first prototypes with a brass pin, but the copper looks so much sexier in our 3D renders that I wanted to dig deeper and make sure he's not bullshitting me.
Weldstan, that is an amazing suggestion. One that I didn't think of. Does the copper alloy have about the same strength as brass?
One side-question for both of you guys. I was also thinking of making another version with a pin made of gold. Does gold have the same limitations as copper? And if yes, is there a way around this, like weldstan suggested with the copper alloy?
Panos
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
One question: Since the carabiner is made for use as a keychain, meaning a lot of rubbing and grinding against coins and keys in the user's pocket. Will the electroplated pin's finish chip or fade with use?
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
Look at alloys C18200 (chrome copper) and 145 (Tellurium copper) if you want harder, but non toxic, copper-colored alloys, and purchase them in half-hard or higher hardness.
I don't think a plated finish would hold up well, unless you could keep the head of the rivet/pin below flush with the surface. A gold color would be easier to obtain with any number of bronze/brass alloys, and hold up well to wear/corrosion.
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
btrueblood, thank you for your input. Toxicity and the higher cost are very important factors that I need to take into consideration. I'll look at the alloys you suggested. Your reply is gold.
Panos
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
Besides the appearance, I do care about the longevity of the carabiner. But the suggestion is sneaky and clever and I like it. I'm not sure how much it would change the cost of manufacturing, but I'll look into it.
Panos
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
Gold alloys are quite soft. Gold-Nickel alloys are quite strong and are available in wire & rod. I believe that South African Krueerands were alloyed with Be to harden them.
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
So, to my understanding, whenever I want to use a metal that is soft, I always look for alloys of that metal.
Thank you for wisdom, weldstan.
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
Gold-Nickel alloys most likely will be White Gold.
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
These are usually Cu-Zn alloys (brasses) some with a little Sn and/or Ni.
Too much Zn and the alloy turns white, too little and it is red. I believe that most 'gold' ones are 12-25% Zn.
Costume jewelery and architectural details are made from these alloys. A little less Zn and bit of Sn or Ni makes them stronger and keeps the color about right.
There is brass flatware sold that looks gold, the old stuff is called Dirilyte and Dirigold, but there is new stuff also.
The other option is gold filled. This is much heavier than plating, but still doesn't use much gold.
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Plymouth Tube
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
Thank you very much EdStainless, weldstan, btrueblood and Compositepro for your replies. I've learned a ton and you made my life much easier.
Panos
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
I don't know if that's a necessity in your country, but it sure ruins the design.
Not mentioning this might possibly lead to lawsuits. I hope you have a solution for this that doesn't ruin your design.
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
Thank you for your input, jwhit. I'll definitely keep that in mind.
Panos
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
"On the human scale, the laws of Newtonian Physics are non-negotiable"
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
dwallace1971 and kingnero, thanks for the heads up, but besides not making the carabiners in the US, I've also seen a carabiner that can be used only as a keychain which is made in the US and is of a US company, and doesn't have the warning on the carabiner, but written only in the packaging and at their website, which doesn't hurt the carabiner's design in any way. I'm not sure if someone could have a case against them.
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
The following link shows the variety of colors that can be obtained with different copper-based alloys. Figure III-4. Lots of options from copper to pink/salmon to yellow/gold.
http://www.copper.org/publications/pub_list/pdf/A4...
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
Hi TVP. Thank you very much for posting this. It's incredibly helpful. I have one newbie question:
I'm trying to figure out which of those alloys shown in the .pdf are too soft to be used to make a carabiner pin and which aren't. I assume that the two kinds of strength, tensile and yield, are what matter. Is that right? If yes, do both play an important role or one of the two?
Also, what should the number be? I know that brass is a metal hard enough to be used to make a pin and the alloys that include brass in the .pdf have an over 50 tensile strength. Does that mean that the alloy that I'll choose must have an over 50 tensile strength? Or I don't know what the hell I'm saying?
Panos
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
If you make this 'biner correctly then the pin will only be loaded in shear, it can't be bent. In that case just look at the ultimate tensile strength.
My gut feel is that you are about right with 50,000psi for a strength.
How strong is the material for the body?
In that part the yield strength will matter since it could be bent.
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Plymouth Tube
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
If aluminum is strong enough for a carabiner key chain body, then any copper alloy should also work. Copper should not need any surface coating. Just the rubbing it experiences in your pocket will put a nice patina on its surface.
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
The carabiner is made of Zinc alloy. We didn't care much about its strength because it was our intention from the beginning to make it for use as a keychain and not suitable for climbing. I wanted to do it in Stainless Steel, but the cost of the mold for this material was much more expensive compared to a mold for a zinc alloy carabiner. But I'll definitely see what its yield strength is.
Hi tbuelna, yes, but we are talking about the pin of the carabiner. Could it be possible that the pin in the photo you attached is made of stainless steel? About the coating, yes, we don't intend to do any treatment on the pin, that's why I wanted to use copper and take advantage of its unique color.
Since brass has been deemed as a hard enough material, I'll check its tensile strength and use it as a guide for any future metal choice.
Guys, thank you all for the information. I'll post updates of my project for you to take a look at it if you want.
Best,
Panos
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
Thomas J. Walz
Carbide Processors, Inc.
www.carbideprocessors.com
Good engineering starts with a Grainger Catalog.
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
NOT FOR CLIMBING
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RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
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RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
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RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
Thanks, IRstuff. I'll take a deeper look at the whole matter.
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
That will make me sleep better tonight. Thank you, btrueblood!
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
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RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
Right, because it's certainly not the parent's job to make sure their kids are not rapelling off the neighbor's roof with un-rated climbing gear.
To be somewhat fair, IRstuff's cautions are probably appropriate for the litigious US market, at least if a supplier intends to be in business for awhile. The reference to idiocracy was an appropriate one, and that movie seems more prescient every day.
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
I agree. The McDonalds example certainly calls for caution. Anyway, moving on..
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
Maui
RE: Could I make a carabiner's pin/rivet out of copper instead of steel?
Hi Maui and thanks for your reply. I didn't know about this process. I'll definitely look into it. Thanks!
Panos