Running Creo Parametric / ProE on a centralized virtual server
Running Creo Parametric / ProE on a centralized virtual server
(OP)
Our IT dept has had good success migrating resource-intensive applications to virtual servers.
They are proposing to test systems using Microsoft Hyper-V with Remote FX and VMware with Horizon View.
So far we want the Hyper-V system, but it did not work because of the lack of OpenGL support. We are trying VMware next.
Has anyone tried this and have experiences to share, positive or otherwise?
David
They are proposing to test systems using Microsoft Hyper-V with Remote FX and VMware with Horizon View.
So far we want the Hyper-V system, but it did not work because of the lack of OpenGL support. We are trying VMware next.
Has anyone tried this and have experiences to share, positive or otherwise?
David





RE: Running Creo Parametric / ProE on a centralized virtual server
We use Dell FX1000 and R5000 systems, rack mounted computer in central computer room, local screen/keyboard/mouse.
"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."
Ben Loosli
RE: Running Creo Parametric / ProE on a centralized virtual server
Users will still have local computers with screen/keyboard/mouse, but the local computers will not need the horsepower locally.
David
RE: Running Creo Parametric / ProE on a centralized virtual server
I have seen installations where only one computer hosted the software, rather than installing it everywhere, which was excellent for keeping everyone on the same version, but it's been almost 20 years since I've heard of anyone using a remote, shared computer.
The last time I worked with a system like this it was with X-terminals attached to a workstation. It basically dragged everything to a crawl with 3 users on one machine doing the processing.
RE: Running Creo Parametric / ProE on a centralized virtual server
RE: Running Creo Parametric / ProE on a centralized virtual server
IT has been surprised many times by the demands of a CAD application that they don't have when consolidating things like MS Office or even an ERP program.
"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."
Ben Loosli
RE: Running Creo Parametric / ProE on a centralized virtual server
1) Management stability and portability.
2) Data/network security when the user is not inside the building. Outbound data is the image of your screen, incoming data is keystrokes and mouse inputs.
3) Shared hardware. They are testing multi-core NVidia GPU's that would be configured so that each user has at least one GPU dedicated to their usage. We can use more than our individual allocations for RAM, when the collective RAM usage is less than the maximum.
4) "Network" drives are as fast as "Local" drives. Because in fact, everything would be stored on the same storage backplane and no application data would need to be retrieved over the lines to the user. (As you know, Pro/E is dog-tastically slow when the disk access is not fast)
5) We're due for new workstations, and we can get more hardware in the server for the $$ than if we bought all new workstations. And our budget for workstations has historically been quite modest at $2k/box.
6) Engineers can work from home productively if they have any computer and a reasonably fast internet connection.
If you're used to other virtual servers such as remote desktop, you've used one of the slowest and most inefficient setups around. VMware uses it's own IP network protocol that is optimized for this exact service. So you can get much better experience compared to other products.
Apparently our testing has proven that MS product does not support OpenGL, and VMware does. So we're now fully focused on VMware and so my original post question is moot.
If it works, great. If it doesn't work, we'll do workstations again.
David
RE: Running Creo Parametric / ProE on a centralized virtual server
I highly doubt that VMware will fall under a PTC certified system, if you run into problems you will probably be on your own.
The cost/speed benefit swings back and forth every few years between central processing / light clients and local processing. You can actually buy a lot of workstation today for $2k, particularly if you don't need new monitors. I can't see VMware if you are still putting a PC on every desk, to make it cost effective I think you need to put all your office productivity on the server and just have dumb terminals.
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RE: Running Creo Parametric / ProE on a centralized virtual server
Our existing computers are going to continue to run and serve as dumb terminals. The hope is to migrate non-CAD users to dumb terminals and CAD users something a bit more substantial. All applications will be served through the virtual environment.
I will advise to check with Creo 3 for OpenGL support. We're on Creo 2 now but updating soon.
David
RE: Running Creo Parametric / ProE on a centralized virtual server
well, mostly: http://www.anandtech.com/show/8376/intel-disables-...
there have also been several notable bugs in motherboard chipsets in the last couple of years.
also, CAD systems are not cpu intensive. there are bursts (rebuilds), but the bulk of time the program is waiting for an input (or panning, zooming). nothing exceptional for today.
another benefit is also data security, as an engineer can't make backups at an offsite location (and i'm sure that we all have
virtualization is the way of the future anyway. just look at the server market in 2004 and today.
DS is already planning to make catia (and solidworks mechanical conceptual) as a cloud app (it also can be a local cloud).
RE: Running Creo Parametric / ProE on a centralized virtual server
I'm not on the admin side so I don't know much more than that, but I can let you know how it goes once we get up and running (targeting end of year).
-tg
http://xternal.me
RE: Running Creo Parametric / ProE on a centralized virtual server
One of the things that seems to make Windchill slow is they continue to use Pull for information rather than Push. This means that only when the Workspace is modified or refreshed are the entries in it checked for current status against Commonspace. Which means if there are 50,000 items in a Workspace, each and every one will get a request, and probably a chain of requests for related information, to find the one or two items that have changed. So information flow is X-times the actual need, and it's not encapsulated, so it's a lot of little requests, each with its own request padding.
Pull systems are fine on a pure consumer side. They only need to know what things look like -now- and can afford to delete the Workspace when they've seen what they need to. In development, Pull systems stink.
I hope the virtual system works out.
RE: Running Creo Parametric / ProE on a centralized virtual server
I've heard of other virtualization environments working (other than Citrix/nVidia) but they are not certified/supported yet so be aware...
Anyway, the platform support is all documented online - too many combos to list here :)