"Engineering" in business name
"Engineering" in business name
(OP)
Hi,
Can anyone advise if they are aware if it is or is not legal to use the term "engineering" in a business name in the state of Michigan without the LLC member being licensed as a P.E. ?
I know there are several states which do have a requirement like this and that the state of Michigan have statues in place regarding the use of Professional Services in business names but have not found anything related specifically to the use of the term "engineering."
Thank you,
David
thread765-130734: Use of the word "engineering" in company name
Can anyone advise if they are aware if it is or is not legal to use the term "engineering" in a business name in the state of Michigan without the LLC member being licensed as a P.E. ?
I know there are several states which do have a requirement like this and that the state of Michigan have statues in place regarding the use of Professional Services in business names but have not found anything related specifically to the use of the term "engineering."
Thank you,
David
thread765-130734: Use of the word "engineering" in company name





RE: "Engineering" in business name
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: "Engineering" in business name
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: "Engineering" in business name
RE: "Engineering" in business name
Richard A. Cornelius, P.E.
WWW.amlinereast.com
RE: "Engineering" in business name
TTFN

FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers
Of course I can. I can do anything. I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
RE: "Engineering" in business name
I would not put engineering in the title unless there was a PE on staff or you operated entirely under industrial exemptions or similar.
Maine EIT, Civil/Structural.
RE: "Engineering" in business name
RE: "Engineering" in business name
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. —Galileo Galilei, Italian Physicist
RE: "Engineering" in business name
It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.
RE: "Engineering" in business name
Not that I am disagreeing with you, but if the law draws a distinction by using the term "professional engineer" rather than "engineer" it seems reasonable to me to use the latter legally without a license. How is it different than a non-medical doctor using the title doctor?
The term engineering itself, as vague defined by ABET, seems like it could apply to activities which do not require a license.
Granted, at the end of the day a court is going to use subjectivity as it desires and I agree with your assessment completely.
-D
RE: "Engineering" in business name
A friend of mine started "[Insert his name here] Engineering, LLC" in Colorado in the 1990's. Somehow it came to the attention of the state board that he did not have a P.E. on staff at all, let alone as a corporate officer, and he got a polite cease and desist letter. He ignored it. He got a not-so-polite "if you don't cease and desist we will bring action" letter and he ignored that too. They filed suit and his negotiated settlement included changing the business name and paying a fine. The business failed a couple of years later.
Ignore regulations at your peril. Fail to get competent legal advice at your peril. Best of luck to you in your new venture.
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. —Galileo Galilei, Italian Physicist
RE: "Engineering" in business name
--OR--
You can take some real time and look at real laws and codes and maybe consult with someone who can save you from yourself.
--OR--
I have lots of rope. Be glad to sell you some. I'll even throw in the appropriate knots for free.
RE: "Engineering" in business name
RE: "Engineering" in business name
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. —Galileo Galilei, Italian Physicist
RE: "Engineering" in business name
In states like California, industrial companies are exempt.
TTFN

FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers
Of course I can. I can do anything. I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
RE: "Engineering" in business name
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. —Galileo Galilei, Italian Physicist
RE: "Engineering" in business name
Not particularly; one can simply look at the revenue stream and show that their main business is manufacturing, and the engineering related to their manufactured products or process. Any non-product related engineering that they perform is for specific customers that solicit Boeing's engineering expertise,
But, when it's Joe Blow Engineering, and it's clear from the paper trail that they're actually doing engineering for the public at large, it's a fait accompli.
TTFN

FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers
Of course I can. I can do anything. I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
RE: "Engineering" in business name
He later took his PE exam, passed with flying colors, and ordered some more business cards.
Best to you,
Goober Dave
Haven't see the forum policies? Do so now: Forum Policies
RE: "Engineering" in business name
So what actually defines "engineering" and "the public at large"? What is/isn't exempt does not seem to have a clear answer.
If a company manufactures and sells a consumer product:
Does the engineering that went into the design of the product and the design of it's manufacturing processes require PE oversight?
If a company manufactures and sells an industrial product to industrial end users:
Ditto above. Also, does this count as "the public at large"?
Things are pretty clear when a company provides a service. IE: We come to your house and inspect your foundation.
Things seem totally confused once a product and/or manufacturing are involved.
There's a long chain of steps from product conception to finally getting it into the hands of somebody that is willing to exchange money for it.
Which of these steps require PE oversight? Design of the product? Design of the product's manufacturing methods? Design of the truck that will take the product to Wally World? If a product consists as a compilation of off-the-shelf components, who has the ultimate "engineering" responsibility? The supplier of those components or the OEM that tapes them together or the user who integrates it into their plant?
Even trying to GET a PE in these enivronments is frustrating at best given the reference requirements and the catch-22 that results.
RE: "Engineering" in business name
In your list, none of it requires a P.E. You can design the part, design the process, and design the tooling under the industrial exemption. Remember there is no P.E. stamp on the drawings for Lawn Darts.
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. —Galileo Galilei, Italian Physicist
RE: "Engineering" in business name
6747. Exemption for industries
(a) This chapter, except for those provisions that apply to civil engineers and civil engineering, shall not apply to the performance of engineering work by a manufacturing, mining, public utility, research and development, or other industrial corporation, or by employees of that corporation, provided that work is in connection with, or incidental to, the products, systems, or services of that corporation or its affiliates.
(b) For purposes of this section, “employees” also includes consultants, temporary employees, contract employees, and those persons hired pursuant to third-party contracts.
TTFN

FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers
Of course I can. I can do anything. I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
RE: "Engineering" in business name
Apparently there are many such companies in Ontario...
RE: "Engineering" in business name
RE: "Engineering" in business name
The area with the biggest uncertainty is things like the Microsoft Certified Application Engineer programs. No particular education is required (certainly not Calculus, Chemistry, Physics, etc). I know one guy that got a cease and desist order for having "Certified Application Engineer" on his business card. He never did anything with it and they didn't follow up. The P.E. police really hate that one.
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. —Galileo Galilei, Italian Physicist
RE: "Engineering" in business name
TTFN

FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers
Of course I can. I can do anything. I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
RE: "Engineering" in business name
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. —Galileo Galilei, Italian Physicist
RE: "Engineering" in business name
339.2014 Prohibited conduct; penalties.
Sec. 2014.
A person is subject to the penalties set forth in article 6 who commits 1 of the following:
(a) Uses the term “architect”, “professional engineer”, “land surveyor”, “professional surveyor”, or a similar term in connection with the person's name unless the person is licensed in the appropriate practice under this article.
(b) Presents or attempts to use as the person's own the license or seal of another.
(c) Attempts to use an expired, suspended, or revoked license.
(d) Uses the words “architecture”, “professional engineering”, “land surveying”, “professional surveying”, or a similar term in a firm name without authorization by the appropriate board.
(e) Submits to a public official of this state or a political subdivision of this state for approval, a permit or a plan for filing as a public record, a specification, a report, or a land survey that does not bear 1 or more seals of a licensee as required by this article. This subdivision does not apply to a public work costing less than $15,000.00 or a residential building containing not more than 3,500 square feet of calculated floor area. As used in this subdivision, “calculated floor area” means that term as defined in section 2012(2)(a).
Using the term "Engineer" or "Engineering" with or without "Professional" in front of it is usurping the engineering profession and, in my opinion and that of many state boards, is illegal. It implies you have qualifications that you don't possess and the clear attempt is to fool the public into thinking you're smarter than the next guy doing the same thing but without the term "engineering" in his business name.