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Structural strength of hook
5

Structural strength of hook

Structural strength of hook

(OP)
In a building that is used both by a 5 classroom school for young children, and also by adults, we are told that we cannot install coat hooks in the newly renovated washroom stalls because of safety regarding the children. This means that the adults have no place to hang their suit jackets when they use the stall. Does anyone know if there are hooks that are designed to address this? For example hooks that will break away at a given load? Or that is mounted on a spring? I was wondering if a spring-type door stopper would do?

RE: Structural strength of hook

good grief ! how is a hook mounted 5' from the floor a hazard for a child ? maybe adults need to bring one of their own, that'd clip onto the door top edge ??

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

RE: Structural strength of hook

(OP)
I thought of that too, but it would be a bit impractical in this building.

RE: Structural strength of hook

In case children and the adults use the building at different times of the day, you may probably propose some type of temporary arrangement. For example, a portable hook stand that could be placed at a convenient place when the adults use the facility, and moved inside a storage place when the children time starts.

RE: Structural strength of hook

(OP)
Thanks PSEPK, I had not thought of that.

RE: Structural strength of hook

What is the danger? Some kid is going to hang himself or one of his classmates?

BA

RE: Structural strength of hook

The stupidity of our "educators" never ends. No wonder why the school systems are in the shape they're in.

PSEPK has the best idea. If that's too dangerous for the school officials people will have to throw their cost over the door or wear it on the throne.

RE: Structural strength of hook

Sounds like a question for an Architect! Just don't have any hooks, it is the owners choice. Why try and add them. or add cheap plastic ones from 3M that have a 5-pound limit, assuming they have a factor of 3 that is less weight than a first grader.

http://www.command.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/NAComma...

RE: Structural strength of hook

So to me the key here (being in a structural forum) is how much weight will the hooks take - what is the ASCE 7 loads required on those hooks. Does any lateral wind load on the hooks happen (i.e. internal 5 psf loading) and how massive are the hooks relative to seismic forces. The questions just won't stop.

(sorry for the bad humor)...

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RE: Structural strength of hook

I think I see what's going on here. This is an effort to prevent the teachers from hanging kids on those hooks.

RE: Structural strength of hook

(OP)
The architect just says that the stall partition supplier told him that cannot put hooks on the new partitions, for safety reasons. I expect that it is concern for a child hanging himself. I don't know if there is actually legislation against it, but I suspect that there is. I don't suppose anyone here would know?

The starchitect seems not to care at all about addressing the issue, or any issue of practicality in his various renovations of the building. Maybe my best course of action should be to just wait until others complain...hopefully they will. My experience with starchitects is that they don't care how impractical something is, as long as it looks good and reflects praise and glory on him. Beneath his dignity to walk into the washroom and try it out.

EngineeringEric's idea of using the 3M hanger seems good to me provided it is load tested to failure to confirm that the failure load does not exceed 15 pounds. I think that I could do this with a spring type fish scale and pull down on it till the 3M hanger fails .

RE: Structural strength of hook

I’m wondering if it has more to do with concern over a rambunctious kid slamming another kid into it during horseplay, or perhaps as an eye-gouging hazard.

Any time objects protrude from the wall they can present hazards. Likewise with footstool-sized objects presenting tripping hazards. Passageway should be as unimpeded as possible.

If it is related to the object’s breakaway strength then I think Eric solved the problem. I use those 3M hooks at my house and they work as advertised.

RE: Structural strength of hook

(OP)
Hi Bridgebuster - looks like you may have identified a solution. I will contact the company that make the Bobrick hanger and discuss with them. Thanks very much.

Hi Oldestguy - I am reluctant to have the janitor install any hook, because with my luck someone will get injured and the finger will be pointed at me.

RE: Structural strength of hook

no problem ajk1. I'd be interested in knowing how it turns out.

RE: Structural strength of hook

(OP)
Hi bridgebuster - I contacted the Bobrick company and they say that the B-983 hook has a breaking load of 50 pounds and is generally used in jails. So unfortunately this does not seem like the solution, but good thought. The Bobrick Company suggests their 7671 hook,which has a blunt end so would eliminate the eye poking hazard, and they say it has a low breaking load, but they don't know what the breaking load is. They are looking into it and will get back. It looks to me that is is not a low breaking load type hook, but I will see what they say. Perhaps I should go to Home Depot and see what they have.

RE: Structural strength of hook

Here's a silly idea to match such a silly discussion; why not use a spring door stopper? Doubles to keep kids from their impending doom and to stop the stall doors from banging all while providing a great hook for things that don't weight much.



Only downside is now the bathrooms will be filled with the sound "BOING!" as kids play with the damn thing while on the toilet. :P

Maine EIT, Civil/Structural.

RE: Structural strength of hook

(OP)
Please see my original question at the top...that is precisely what I suggested. However it might poke someone's eye out, so probably is not a good idea.

RE: Structural strength of hook

Ah so you did.

Maine EIT, Civil/Structural.

RE: Structural strength of hook

Now what are the starchitects initials.... I am rather curious now.

RE: Structural strength of hook

(OP)
Hi Compositepro - interesting thinking but I don't see how it will address the issue of children hanging themselves. I found an item on the internet about children found playing a game of hanging themselves up by their shirts, onto coat hooks. Somewhere in the U.S., in June. The school board in that area ordered all such hooks in schools removed.

So it seems that the issue is real and we shouldn't make light of it.

RE: Structural strength of hook

Oh no, I think the problem is we're not making light of it enough. But that's beside the point.

Is there anything stopping you from putting hooks so low down that you can't possibly hang from it?

Maine EIT, Civil/Structural.

RE: Structural strength of hook

In mental hospitals all door hinges and everything cannot have lips. patients can use the lowest hinge as a hook for the same concern.

I think the problem comes down to just not providing coat hooks. Leave a gap at the top of the door so people can just fold their coats over the door or keep them on. Any solution will not address all concerns for an idiot proof(the spring idea)/tragedy(true concern) from occurring.

RE: Structural strength of hook

once its built, someone will come along and say, hey there needs to be hooks in here, and screw a few onto the doors.

RE: Structural strength of hook

(OP)
Right on Ztengguy! That is what I am afraid of. But good news, I have found that there are at least 2 companies that make break away hooks for use in educational facilities. I have a call into one of them to discuss and confirm that is what we want. I am hopeful that this will solve the problem. Thanks everyone who contributed good ideas and tried to help out. Gives a warm and fuzzy feeling that so many tried to help solve a problem a little off the beaten track. Very much appreciated.

RE: Structural strength of hook

Problem solved! Until the kids play the "break the hooks" game...

RE: Structural strength of hook

77JQX is absolutely correct!

If you know the Contractor, and the work is already awarded, have a quiet word and advise that they order an extra box (for the warranty period). Otherwise, and likely no matter what, get it minuted that you do not warranty the products as fit for service, but simply that they address the safety concern which has become paramount. They will break away under the "little fingers affect".

RE: Structural strength of hook

(OP)
They are $80 each hook, so we don't want to stock up too much. . But if they have been used in educational institutions, I assume that they have not suffered excessively from any break the hook games. In my day, if you damaged school property you probably got the strap out in the corridor and the whole class could hear it all. I never got the strap.

RE: Structural strength of hook

>>>They are $80 each hook<<<

Wow! The hooks Eric mentioned cost a dollar or two per hook and I used to think that was kind of pricy...

RE: Structural strength of hook

What about one of the bent sheet metal or bent wire type of hooks that is meant to mount over the top of the door and just hangs there?

RE: Structural strength of hook

I found out that this is actually an OSHA requirement for workplace safety. Several instances occurred during jobsite storage of the stall panels. Workers have been injured when sitting on these hooks while eating their lunch.

RE: Structural strength of hook

Not saying your mistaken but can you cite a reference for that BUGGAR? I couldn't find one through google.

Maine EIT, Civil/Structural.

RE: Structural strength of hook

(OP)
I found that Architectural School Products in Toronto markets a $25 hook designed to break waay at 25 pounds, and is used in Toronto schools. It is made by Frost, and is the "1150 Safety Hook". We are going to go with this product. Problem solved. Thanks for the comments and kind efforts to help. Much appreciated.

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