Owner User Welding Procedures
Owner User Welding Procedures
(OP)
Hi All, Can asset maintenance department use welding procedures qualified by contractors during construction of the asset, Plant maintenance and weld repairs if any are directly performed by owner user and not contractor.





RE: Owner User Welding Procedures
RE: Owner User Welding Procedures
Steve Jones
Corrosion Management Consultant
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/8/83b/b04
All answers are personal opinions only and are in no way connected with any employer.
RE: Owner User Welding Procedures
RE: Owner User Welding Procedures
Steve Jones
Corrosion Management Consultant
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/8/83b/b04
All answers are personal opinions only and are in no way connected with any employer.
RE: Owner User Welding Procedures
RE: Owner User Welding Procedures
In the "Grand Scheme of Things", it is not that expensive to run a PQR coupon and have the tensiles & bends performed. Consider that PQR as a capital expense - PQR's actually outlast the corporate headquarters building, making them pretty much the definition of a capital expense. Since you already have WPS's that you seem to like in-hand, run some PQR's to support those WPS's, copy the contractors' WPS's onto your company letterhead, list your PQR's; voila - fully qualified WPS's without having to hire a welding engineer.
RE: Owner User Welding Procedures
RE: Owner User Welding Procedures
RE: Owner User Welding Procedures
Steve Jones
Corrosion Management Consultant
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/8/83b/b04
All answers are personal opinions only and are in no way connected with any employer.
RE: Owner User Welding Procedures
Let's leave the technical side for the moment (and on that I agree with metengr) and look at the ethical side of things.
Hypothetically, I own a welding fabrication company and you hire my company to fabricate, weld and install a huge amount of super duplex piping in your new refinery.
I spend $30,000 on qualifying numerous SDSS welding procedures - this money may or may not be recouped in the contract price, dependant on what type of contract it was.
After completion of construction (which went very well) I will be looking forward to ongoing work from your company on shutdowns (I think you call them outages in the US),maintenance and possible modifications.
I will not be very impressed if I never get a call because you are using your own personnel and my welding procedures to do the work.
Take it one step further, if you have now taken "ownership" of my welding procedures what is to stop you from hiring a cheaper company (cheaper because they don't have any qualified WPS's) and giving the work to them using my welding procedures ?
Some food for thought ?
Cheers,
DD
RE: Owner User Welding Procedures
Essentially: what is the OWNER allowed to do, versus what should the OWNER do.
Steve Jones
Corrosion Management Consultant
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/8/83b/b04
All answers are personal opinions only and are in no way connected with any employer.
RE: Owner User Welding Procedures
Interesting you posted that link - I am one of your supposed "reactionaries" - (formerly Ballbearing).
ASME IX makes no mention of Owner - it lists manufacturer, contractor, assembler or installer.
Based on your previous posts it appears you do not think the Owner has to comply with the requirements of the code, only the manufacturer, contractor, assembler or installer.
QW-100.1 A Welding Procedure Specification (WPS)
is a written document that provides direction to the welder
or welding operator for making production welds in accordance
with Code requirements. Any WPSs used by a manufacturer
or contractor that will have responsible operational
control of production welding shall be a WPS that has
been qualified by that manufacturer or contractor in accordance
with Article II, or it shall be an AWS Standard
Welding Procedure Specification (SWPS) listed in Appendix
E and adopted by that manufacturer or contractor in
accordance with Article V.
QW-103.1 Welding. Each manufacturer or contractor
is responsible for the welding done by his organization
and shall conduct the tests required in this Section to qualify
the welding procedures he uses in the construction of the
weldments built under this Code, and the performance of
welders and welding operators who apply these procedures.
What happens if you substitute Owner for manufacturer or contractor in both of those clauses ?
Regards,
DD
RE: Owner User Welding Procedures
Very good question. the answer could depend upon a number of things: regulations, specific equipment, need to keep within certification requirements etc. The answers tend to fly in from North America and tend to pertain to pressure vessels. Not everyone is in North America, and what about piping? Similar to the linked thread - it is getting to be a "I've looked at the code and it says no" type of exchange.
For example, my current location has no readily apparent requirement legal, company or otherwise to ever have or to maintain a code stamp of a pressure vessel. I can't say that I'm overly keen on such an arrangement, but what if the OP was also located in the same place? Does the response have to be "I've looked at the code and it says no?" What the OP is asking is routine for this part of the world.
Steve Jones
Corrosion Management Consultant
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/8/83b/b04
All answers are personal opinions only and are in no way connected with any employer.
RE: Owner User Welding Procedures
Not sure what code stamping of a pressure vessel has to do with the current discussion.
We are talking about the requirements of ASME IX.
I have worked in Australia, New Zealand, China, Thailand and currently in Malaysia but in all these countries if you are working to ASME codes and your PQR/WPS/Welder Qualification must be in accordance with ASME IX then you must comply with code requirements no matter whether you are a manufacturer, contractor, assembler,installer or Owner.
Regards,
DD
RE: Owner User Welding Procedures
As to maintaining compliance with ASME codes in Australia, New Zealand, China and Thailand, that may be because it is stipulated by law, or other instrument. That is not the case everywhere - there is nothing requiring adherence to ASME codes in terms of administrative and operational control of welding procedure specifications when it comes to undertaking post-commissioning welding in this part of the world. The owner is free to do as seen fit. When the State is the Owner there is possibly some scope for conflict of interest.
Steve Jones
Corrosion Management Consultant
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/8/83b/b04
All answers are personal opinions only and are in no way connected with any employer.
RE: Owner User Welding Procedures
RE: Owner User Welding Procedures
If you follow the link Steve Jones provided you will see it was me (with user name Ballbearing) that initially raised the topic of B31.3 "Qualification by others",
Regards,
DD