what to choose?
what to choose?
(OP)
hello
I have been offered both the Engineering Management Apprenticeship of Defence Equipment and Support of the Ministry of Defence UK and the Ford Higher Apprenticeship in Product Development.
Which should I choose?
Both fund an engineering degree. The Ministry of Defence, the role is for project management, but there are opportunities to become engineering specialist. At Ford, it is about improving the powertrain. Both are permanent positions, with similar money at the begining, but don't know about afterwards.
Ask me if you need more info.
Thanks!
I have been offered both the Engineering Management Apprenticeship of Defence Equipment and Support of the Ministry of Defence UK and the Ford Higher Apprenticeship in Product Development.
Which should I choose?
Both fund an engineering degree. The Ministry of Defence, the role is for project management, but there are opportunities to become engineering specialist. At Ford, it is about improving the powertrain. Both are permanent positions, with similar money at the begining, but don't know about afterwards.
Ask me if you need more info.
Thanks!





RE: what to choose?
Seriously, I don't know how it works in the UK, but in government positions here, the work it can get boring and tedious - happened to me when working for a public utility here early in my career. I had to give up the security of a government position (back then it was more securer), leave and move to the private sector. More risks there, but better opportunity to learn new things.
Working for a large company like Ford can have it's benefits, particularly if given the opportunity to develop new ideas and technology. But, like government, you can get lost in a larger company too...
Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)
RE: what to choose?
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: what to choose?
I really don't know. I don't want to expect from me to invent the next big thing in engines and if not to dismiss me. I don't know much about project management, but I suppose it entails much reading of legislation and contract terms etc, which is some bureaucracy that I wouldn't say I enjoy. So, I really don't know.
RE: what to choose?
"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."
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RE: what to choose?
also, if I become a developer engineer in Ford, will I be able to move to other sectors, like medical devices?
RE: what to choose?
They guys we dealt with spent their time worrying about inventory, doing accounting etc. to check if they wanted to spend the money for certain tasks...
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: what to choose?
No one is expecting the solution to "miracle needed HERE" from anyone, much less a newbie engineer. Whatever miracle exists or needs to exist is usually surrounded by 99% existing technology, since the miracle simply needs to be "re-packaged."
TTFN

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RE: what to choose?
Engineering is moving offshore to low cost engineering centres (I know my view is pessimistic and others have a more optimistic view)
The MOD produce good project managers and they can work over several industries
So I agree with MadMango - I have not seen many PMs let go and they seem to jump industries more frequently than engineers
Tickle
RE: what to choose?
If you don't know what you want to do, how did you get the offers? You must know something if you applied there.
Chris, CSWA
SolidWorks 14
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion
RE: what to choose?
No, Ford doesn't work like that (shame really, a bit of blood on the floor would encourage les autres). By getting an offer for a sponsored place at uni you have already demonstrated that you have a lot of what they are looking for. You may find it hard to move out of automotive, that's a culture thing, but there is no intrinsic reason that you are locking yourself out of medical engineering, in fact a bit of automotive discipline in product development seems quite welcome in other industries.
Be aware that whatever happens to Ford in the UK, it is a great big world out there and there are many countries that would be available to move to, with a great relocation package typically.
So far as the MoD goes, yes there are real engineering jobs, at Boscombe Down and the like, but as the answers above indicate most of the engineering is done by the suppliers. If your course offers any modules in Systems Engineering you should take them if you go with the MoD. or Ford for that matter.
Cheers
Greg Locock
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RE: what to choose?
unless a good project manager can secure an operations management role or similar, which is quite a good progression, in contrast to an R&D manager who afaik is paid less
otherwise, is it only me who sees problem-solving R&D engineers more employable/secure?
RE: what to choose?
For me personally, perceived job security as a 'project manager' would take a second place to wanting to kill myself if I had to project manage full time. I also have really big reservations over project managers not having a good technical foundation. However, you may not feel similarly.
Greg, most of those technical jobs at places like Boscombe Down etc. are either Qinetiq or DSTL - and some of what were Qinetiq jobs have gone to other companies now (at least according to one former colleague).
I actually got asked by active military folk working in MOD logistics as project managers to defy laws of physics and air worthiness good practice so I admit that I question the engineering judgement of MOD employees.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: what to choose?
I am afraid that in MoD I won't gain any skills to make me employable in case I want to move to another company, industry, or even country.
What will I gain in MoD? Apart from experience in project management? And who will want to employ me as a project manager, without having a deep knowledge in a specific field? If I wanted a project manager, I would employ a good engineer in the specific discipline first, who will have project management experience, and not a project manager who is not solid engineer (ie. who hasn't worked as a pure engineer ever in his life). Are my fears valid?
Instead at Ford, I will learn how to use simulation software, design software, I will learn finite element analysis, I will have in my showcase perhaps some achievements in research, etc. These are some skills that make me employable, I understand it. But in MoD? What kind of skills I will gain to become employable? Monitoring the installation of a jet engine control system? Without having deep knowledge of the electronics of it? Etc.
I really don't know, please advise.
RE: what to choose?
Traditionally the pros of govt jobs are that they are seen as more secure & with better benefits/working conditions but I'm not sure how true that is any more - at least the security. You may also have some sense of patriotism driving you the MOD route.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: what to choose?
"the pros of govt jobs are that they are seen as more secure & with better benefits/working conditions but I'm not sure how true that is any more - at least the security."
This is also doubtful these days in Western Europe.
A lot of people have been fired here too.
RE: what to choose?
which of those two offers I got would prepare more effectively to make a move?
also, what skills would I gain in MoD to make me further emploable?
RE: what to choose?
They both sound like great offers, and could be a stepping stone to anything you wanted in those two fields, should you choose to move on in later years.
You just need to ask yourself which career path sounds most rewarding to you, and go with that. That's all that really matters in the end, job satisfaction.
www.jcb.com
NX 8.5 with TC 8.3
RE: what to choose?
RE: what to choose?
Have you asked yourself the basic question, " What would you like to do? " . You are being offered an education on a plate that most students would die for, from not just one , but two entities. Look for the course that will give you the most satisfaction.
I came up a couple of levels underneath what you are being offered now: I had an Apprenticeship, City and guilds ordinary, advanced, and Full tech certificates, Ordinary National Certificate. I would like to have taken HNC but circumstances at the time dictated otherwise.
Bottom line ,I am now 72 years old now retired, and have never had to worry about finding and getting a job during my working life.
Get the education based on what you want to do with your life, not based on what you see now as generating the most money. life changes , things change.
B.E.
You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.
RE: what to choose?
I am considering Ford a bit more, due to the problem solving involved
RE: what to choose?
RE: what to choose?
- No security or too much security will both induce adverse effects (unhealthy);
- Some insecurity has positive effects which can be summarized by this : when you fight for this challenge, your brain prepares for the next challenge...so things are improving; Especially if you want to reach the point where you decide to "float" your resume on the job market...I have the impression it is a convenient approach.