Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?
Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?
(OP)
I received comments from the Daly City Building's Division in California and one of the comments is "Provide documentations and evidence to verify the lumber grades and species for the original construction (IBC/CBC 2303.1.1). All I am doing is installing a 4x4 skylight that requires cutting one truss member in a small 60yrs old residential house. Every other engineer and plan checkers in other jurisdictions I asked said they've never been asked or asked to provide documentations on the lumber grades of an existing house. Is it even legal for them to request this? I would like to hear your feedback. Thanks.






RE: Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?
RE: Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?
RE: Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?
RE: Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?
RE: Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?
RE: Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?
In the OPs case we just assume a low enough grade that the City doesn't question it. If you have some reasonable assumptions I've found them to be reasonably accomodating.
RE: Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?
"3401.4 Building materials. Building materials shall comply with the requirements of this section.
3401.4.1 Existing materials. Materials already in use in a building in compliance with requirements or approvals in effect at the time of their erection or installation shall be permitted to remain in use unless determined by the building code official to be dangerous to life, health or safety. Where such conditions are determined to be dangerous to life, health or safety, they shall be mitigated or made safe.
3401.4.2 New and replacement materials. Except as otherwise required or permitted by this code, materials permitted by the applicable code for new construction shall be used. Like materials shall be permitted for repairs and alterations, provided no hazard to life, health or property is created. Hazardous materials shall not be used where the code for new construction would not permit their use in buildings of similar occupancy, purpose and location.
3401.4.3 Replacement, retention and extension of original materials. [HCD1] Local ordinances or regulations shall permit the replacement, retention and extension of original materials, and the use of original methods of construction, for any building or accessory structure, provided such building or structure complied with the building code provisions in effect at the time of original construction and the building or accessory structure does not become or continue to be a substandard building. For additional information, see Health and Safety Code Sections 17912, 17920.3, 17922(d), 17922.3, 17958.8 and 17958.9."
and
"3401A.4 Building materials. Building materials shall comply with the requirements of this section.
3401A.4.1 Existing materials. Materials already in use in a building in compliance with requirements or approvals in effect at the time of their erection or installation shall be permitted to remain in use unless determined by the building code official to be dangerous to life, health or safety. Where such conditions are determined to be dangerous to life, health or safety, they shall be mitigated or made safe.
3401A.4.2 New and replacement materials. Except as otherwise required or permitted by this code, materials permitted by the applicable code for new construction shall be used. Like materials shall be permitted for repairs and alterations, provided no hazard to life, health or property is created. Hazardous materials shall not be used where the code for new construction would not permit their use in buildings of similar occupancy, purpose and location."
Garth Dreger PE - AZ Phoenix area
As EOR's we should take the responsibility to design our structures to support the components we allow in our design per that industry standards.
RE: Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?
1. The cut trusses are properly supported at panel points at each end of the opening.
2. The adjacent trusses are adequately reinforced to sustain the additional load from headers supporting the cut trusses.
Knowing the grade of the existing lumber does not help very much in assessing the capability of the existing trusses to carry additional load. Their capacity is more likely to be governed by the connections than by the grade of truss members.
BA
RE: Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?
http://www.amazon.com/Identifying-Wood-Accurate-Re...
RE: Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?
I have had to do that here for more than one municipality to get it to pass for older structures without sampling and lab testing.
I would certainly analyze the connections using the lower stress grade values to be conservative without formal testing.
Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)
RE: Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?
"Provide documentations and evidence to verify the lumber grades and species for the original construction (CBC 2303.1.1).
How much does it cost to have someone grade and certify the wood? Where can I find this service?
RE: Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?
RE: Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?
The West Coast Lumber Inspection Bureau has been grading lumber along the west coast since the 1920's, so it is likely that your lumber is grade stamped.
Here's a link to their website:
WCLIB
The building department has every right to ask for this information, particularly since you are modifying a structural component. You will not likely be able to get any good documentation of the lumber properties unless you can find a grade stamp and photograph it. This is all assuming you have no original plans.
RE: Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?
It's hard to imagine the building department would ask this every time someone makes any change to a small single family house. My analysis assuming conservative DFL No.2 results in a lot of remaining capacity. Most old structures here use lumber equal to No. 1 or better.
If they require evidence and documentation for grade of lumber for all existing residence in this city, then no one will be able to do any kind of structural work regardless of how minor it is. The residents are also generally low-income in this city.
RE: Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?
RE: Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?
Yes, this takes time but you'll learn something.
RE: Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?
2303.1.1.1 Certificate of inspection. In lieu of a grade
mark on the material, a certificate of inspection as to
species and grade issued by a lumber grading or inspection
agency meeting the requirements of this section is
permitted to be accepted for precut, remanufactured or
rough-sawn lumber and for sizes larger than 3 inches
(76 mm) nominal thickness.
RE: Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?
Now I really see why the house prices in Daly City are not going up like the cities around it. It is near impossible, if not impossible, to get any kind of structural permits. Even very simple work that would be over-the-counter permits at neighboring cities will have to take months to get in this city.
RE: Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?
BA
RE: Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?
Why not sister the cut members with a new set of rafters, effectively turning the old timber into packing?
Oh, and as for identifying your own lumber, just try to think of what your would say in your defends if you got it wrong: I read a book your honour. Not quite then equivalent of having stayed at the holiday inn, but I think you get my point...
RE: Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?
RE: Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?
RE: Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?
I say jgailla is right, but I'd propose going political. Your city councilor does not like trouble any more than the next politician. Building Officials are not Gods, and have a very hard time enforcing more strictly than the common practice demands when placed under a microscope of political pressure.
RE: Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?
I so regret buying a house in Daly City. I have heard tons of horror stories about the building department and warned not to buy in this City but I always thought it was exaggerated until now. sigh...
RE: Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?
In terms of the technical situation, it is an unreasonable request. In terms of client service this is now completely unreasonable as well, but I don't see how anyone here can help you.
Good luck.
RE: Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?
By the way I do not think it unreasonable for the building official to require an analysis and lumber grades are known to vary widely in truss construction.
RE: Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?
RE: Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?
I have yet to see a timber member fail at the calculated strength in testing. Timber is very conservative and robust by nature. True, trusses make the most of the permitted strength, but we are talking about a situation where the client is open to upgrade and so the precise strength is not required.
The building official is not being reasonable, they are being obtuse and pedantic. I suspect the combination is an actionable tort, but it would be an uphill battle and our OP is already in a delicate position.
RE: Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?
RE: Does code require identifying wood grades of existing structures?