Do people ask Consultants for the Design Model ?
Do people ask Consultants for the Design Model ?
(OP)
I used to work for an oil and gas EPC as a Structural Engineer. The normal practice is I would model something in Staad and analyze it. When the results are out, I would compile all of the results along with my analysis and any commentaries in a pdf file and compile it into a zip file as deliverable to the client.
I have recently switched sides and am now working for a real estate development company - still as a structural engineer. I was wondering if it's common practice for the real estate industry to request the ETABS model from the structural engineering consultant ? Is it even ethical ?
I have recently switched sides and am now working for a real estate development company - still as a structural engineer. I was wondering if it's common practice for the real estate industry to request the ETABS model from the structural engineering consultant ? Is it even ethical ?






RE: Do people ask Consultants for the Design Model ?
Personally, I'm surprised more people don't ask for the model. It's pretty impossible (for me at least) to obtain much useful information from pages of ETABS output.
RE: Do people ask Consultants for the Design Model ?
If you want to make sure model transfer happens write it into your contract.
Cheers
Greg Locock
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RE: Do people ask Consultants for the Design Model ?
I don't see the big deal though - if they did their design correctly, why would they decline the request?
RE: Do people ask Consultants for the Design Model ?
1. Questions we'll be expected to answer for free on the justification that we are expected to explain what is not clear.
2. Another engineer's criticism of anywhere we have been conservative.
3. Another engineer's criticism of anywhere we have been even 0.1% under code value, despite always being conservative in load development.
4. If a client does not ask for this up front, we cannot price to offset costs. Insisting after the fact means they are not a client we want to pursue repeat business from.
5. Another engineer gains access to all of our methods and any shortcuts or unique details we have developed.
Effectively this can only lead to lost productivity and profit. There is nothing to be gained for the firm. All of these arguments apply equally or nearly so to sharing a model.
RE: Do people ask Consultants for the Design Model ?
A model file is something that can be changed. In some states, that's a no-no. You can only provide a design product that is in a non-changeable format, such as a compilation, a report or a drawing. Electronic files are not commonly provided to the client. They are your work product and should be excluded by contract. You own your documents unless you give up that ownership in the contract. Not a good idea to do so.
RE: Do people ask Consultants for the Design Model ?
Michael.
"Science adjusts its views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that belief can be preserved." ~ Tim Minchin
RE: Do people ask Consultants for the Design Model ?
I would be very leary of giving them an electronic file. I
would FIRST have them sign A LEGAL RELEASE FROM ALL LIABILITY. You loose all control over what might be done with this file in the future. As we enter a new era (fabrication directly from electronic files with little in no oversight) YOU NEED A RELEASE FROM LIABILITY. We all know that engineering models may not be EXACT DIMENSIONS but good enough for structural calculations. Also make clkear that drawings and calcs and files are ONLY REFERENCE and NOT TO BE REUSED at any other site except that shown on this site plan, nor under any other code.
RE: Do people ask Consultants for the Design Model ?
thread507-89434: Calculations: Personal Tool or Public Record
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RE: Do people ask Consultants for the Design Model ?
However, the program input files that produced the output in the calculations remain in my office, on my computers, unchanged.
Mike McCann, PE, SE
RE: Do people ask Consultants for the Design Model ?
It's always done better in England (with this one exception where you chaps seem to have got it right and we have it dead wrong)
RE: Do people ask Consultants for the Design Model ?
RE: Do people ask Consultants for the Design Model ?
Mike McCann, PE, SE