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How to survive corporate politics
30

How to survive corporate politics

How to survive corporate politics

(OP)
I am a registered professional engineer with 5+ years experience. Recently took a new job, my first experience with a large corporation. I have always struggled with corporate politics, but this job is worse than any I've had before. I have four effective bosses. And the lead engineer on a project is someone with half the experience of me, no PE, and frequently makes decisions that I find very hard to respect.

Basically, my question is: how do you stand it? I know more than most of my coworkers, but I get no respect because I'm a new employee (4 months now). I feel like half my coworkers are more concerned with political maneuvering for more power in the company. I am a perfectionist. I can't stand people who are my superior, but who I view to be less competent than me. All I want to do is perform good engineering and ensure safety of life. And I feel like that conflicts with the corporate culture, which really wants me to be an obedient little robot and obey people that I have no respect for.

Here is an example. I sat in a very stressful meeting the other day. The client was very mad because we disagreed with the analysis of another engineering firm. This problem has gone on for weeks and could create major project delays. I feel confident that I could sit down with the other subcontractor and calmly solve the problem in a day. Instead, we sit in these meetings with lots of people arguing around a table. The client is yelling, asking for a solution. I know I can give them one. And I know that my company will not allow it. Because there are at least two people above me who want to be in control. It just killed me to know I could help our client and my company will not allow me to.

I know we all make jokes. But I really care about engineering. I am passionate about my work. And I absolutely hate my job. It causes extreme stress and makes me feel miserable. And I know it is not the company. I had similar feelings with every job, though none as extreme as this. So please, any advice. How do I tolerate this?

How do I care enough to provide quality engineering, but remain detached enough to let everyone else win their power games?

RE: How to survive corporate politics

Move to a small company.

RE: How to survive corporate politics

"I am a perfectionist. I can't stand people who are my superior, but who I view to be less competent than me."

Better get used to it. It often happens.

RE: How to survive corporate politics

Sounds like you are in a bad company. Lots of people who have complex's trying for control
Ideally you would have to go to each person and solve their issue, which might not even be engineering wise. A while back I listened to a podcast called either Career Tool or Management Tools which dealt with issues like you are facing and gave you some ideas to help solve them. If you have time to do some looking it might be worth wild to find it

Future PE Engineer
Pet project I am working on to help other engineers, not much yet hoping to get it grow as I learn more
http://www.peexamquestions.com

RE: How to survive corporate politics

Small companies aren't any better. Trust me.

My solution was start my own company! I don't have any employees and my boss is the best :D

Seriously though, that place sounds like it has some deeply-rooted issues. Time to move on (and talk with people who quit from any place that offers you a job!).

RE: How to survive corporate politics

When I read, "I am a perfectionist. I can't stand people who are my superior, but who I view to be less competent than me." it worries me.
Is it you or is it them? Of course you're going to say "I know I'm right and that they're idiots." But maybe you should step back and see what got them in the superivising position. See what they bring (or brought) to the table.
It's easy to criticize a supervisor. But do you know what's directing them?

RE: How to survive corporate politics

2

Quote:

I can't stand people who are my superior, but who I view to be less competent than me.

Quote:

the corporate culture, which really wants me to be an obedient little robot and obey people that I have no respect for.
you really need to adjust that attitude. Whether you realize it or not, people can read that in your tone of voice, body language or writing. That attitude will not serve you well in your career.

Quote:

I know it is not the company. I had similar feelings with every job
I would do some serious self examination, you have this feeling every job you take. Sounds like a pattern to me.


instead of whining about it, find another company to work for. Make sure before you take the job to ask if your supervisor is more competent than you and worthy of your respect.

RE: How to survive corporate politics

I would expect that everyone around you knows how you feel about them and about yourself. You surely won't be missed when you're gone.

We used to have a guy like that here, he made sure that everyone knew how special he was, and that he had no use for any of the managers, because he was so much smarter than they were. I later saw emails between his wife and him, talking about how the company didn't appreciate his talents, and didn't give him the respect and recognition he deserved.

One day I reminded him that the company existed before him, and we must do something right, because he WANTED to come to work there.

When he announced one day that he was leaving, the response was a resounding echo of silence. Nobody cared.

My only advice to you is to consider a career change.

RE: How to survive corporate politics

OP,

You got a bad attitude.

RE: How to survive corporate politics

If you have "four effective bosses" you are very lucky. Most people don't have any. Now if you "in effect, have four bosses", that could be a problem.

And being so good after just 5 years, just imagine how perfect you will be when you've gained REAL experience in 10 or 15 years. Please let me know when you start your own religion ... I will sell everything I own and follow you.

Seriously though, with that arrogant, egotistical attitude you will only be happy once you start your own company. Then you would only have to deal with all the stupid clients.

RE: How to survive corporate politics

(OP)
This wasn't a complaint or whine. This was an admission that I have a problem and an honest question for help on how to fix it. Thanks for the hazing. I appreciated the help.

RE: How to survive corporate politics

3
I once had an employee with a superiority complex. She had been reassigned from another plant where she had a lot of authority and control as a one-(wo)man-show. She was smarter than everyone, worked harder than everyone, was more dedicated than everyone, saw the root cause of the problem before anyone else, was more frustrated than everyone, was less diplomatic than everyone....and was generally hated by everyone. I saw potential in this person, and I thought her talents could benefit the company. I endured a lot of her rantings and crying fits, lending an ear, and trying to counsel her on how to be a better worker. None of which worked.

I sat her down, declared a "Boss Free Zone", and had a heart-to-heart talk with her. After complimenting her work and dedication, I explained she was now part of a team and "must learn how to play well with the other kids in the sandbox". I made it clear that the other employees would fire her and kick her out of the sandbox, just that I would be the one with the unpleasant duty to make it official. She took the advice to heart, the next day went around and made personal apologies to all the other team members. She became a much better employee.

EVERY place has dysfunctional idiots running loose in it. That's Human Nature. Some places have more than others (it seems yours does). The ONLY person who can fix this problem is YOU, and it begins with YOU. Being a "perfectionist" in a team environment is actually a bad thing in my experience. Solving technical problems is simple compared to navigating human issues. If you are such a perfectionist, then you should work on improving that aspect of your personality. Once I had a miserable SOB as a co-worker/boss, and after complaining to an older friend, he responded by "So, how can you make him a BETTER boss?" Once I swallowed my self-destructive pride and started trying to be a better team player, then the adversarial bosses started trusting me more. It was then that I could offer my opinions on better solutions and they would listen.

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering
www.bluetechnik.com

RE: How to survive corporate politics

"Then you would only have to deal with all the stupid clients."

There is no such thing as a stupid client.
There is no such thing as a stupid client.
There is no such thing as a stupid client.
There is no such thing as a stupid client.
There is no such thing as a stupid client.

Repeated often enough, I find that to be at least therapeutic. It doesn't work all the time, though, which is when it Might Become Annoying.

RE: How to survive corporate politics

grow a thick skin and learn to survive.

This is trivial and happens in most work places, and you're not the only one.

RE: How to survive corporate politics

Team first, success follows.

RE: How to survive corporate politics

I can't stand people who are my superior, but who I view to be less competent than me."

That line reminds me of the time I was in navy. I had this conflict with authority figures, until I dealt with it later in life. Might want to look at the problem that is yours and then dealing with people that are your boss will go a lot easier.

Being perfect is not engineering. Seems engineering is a big compromise where its a balance with function and safety. I remember a few people who strove to be perfect, they usually never got their work done.

RE: How to survive corporate politics

"Basically, my question is: how do you stand it?"

The cure : Do nothing and continue despite all things that hit you.
Keep going forward. That means deliver what you are expected to deliver in terms of work whatever are the adverse conditions.

Hard work and patience will pay. If you are treated badly by few and it hurts your pride that is a blessing. I personally found it an amazing source of energy to be even more determined in your actions. Don't give up, fight day after day. Gain the fight day by day.

With your PE and background am sure that in a few years from now you will find it was worth the efforts.

Someone said : "you have a dream you got to protect it." that's exactly what you have to do.

Good luck.

RE: How to survive corporate politics

Quote:


This wasn't a complaint or whine. This was an admission that I have a problem and an honest question for help on how to fix it. Thanks for the hazing. I appreciated the help.

If the above statement is true, then I suggest taking a communications course, it's likely that your communications with your co-workers are equally as misleading as your post here. Your post came across as a whiny rant, with a tiny question tossed in at the end. If your intent was indeed to get serious advice, it surely did not come across that way.

RE: How to survive corporate politics

14
Honestly, folks, I'm kind of embarrassed by the responses on here lately. Let's take a deep breath and quit jumping to the conclusion that everyone asking for advice is whiny or snotty or whatever. We get so ridiculously high-horse on this site! Folks don't post for help if everything is going well, they post when they're fed up and need help! Let's all focus instead on giving HELPFUL advice instead of just "wow, you're an idiot" or "you have an attitude problem". There are ways to say things that don't attack people. Find them.

RE: How to survive corporate politics

thread731-179040: Overcoming Frustration May or may not be of assistance.

SLTA, the communal pile on based on whatever the consensus of the first few posters was is a time honored tradition on this site.winky smile

Honestly based on the OP there's not enough to be sure either way - last line of the OP suggests they at least want to see what they can do to help the situation so I'll give them benefit of the doubt.

Then again, being pretty wound up with the situation here I'm all to quick to accept their management & certain colleagues may be a bunch of ...

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: How to survive corporate politics

Nickninevah, you remind me of me, ~45 years ago.
I don't mean that as a compliment.
I recommend that you change something. ... now.

Changing jobs won't help.
With five or more years' experience, the only jobs you can get are broken; someone else left. ... in today's market, probably not by choice. So there's a mess to clean up, in addition to learning the ropes.


Which leaves, uh, you.

Be as arrogant and superior as you want. ... on the inside.
...
No, forget that.
Most people will sense your internal attitude, perhaps unconsciously, no matter how hard you try to hide it, and they will react to it.

You need some humility.
Try something hard. No, harder than that.
You need to fail at something.




Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: How to survive corporate politics

We all want to change the world...or company.

My best advice isn't mine own:

“Be the change that you wish to see in the world (or company).”
― Mahatma Gandhi

RE: How to survive corporate politics

"Let's all focus instead on giving HELPFUL advice"

Many people did give helpful advice: OP should change him/herself and/or switch jobs.

Based on the collected wisdom and experience of the users of this forum, I think the gist of the original post came through quite clearly. It appears that was NOT what the OP expected, however.

RE: How to survive corporate politics

Document your suggestions, distribute internally AS APPROPRIATE to your immediate superiors, and wait patiently. Learn how to humbly say "I told you so"*** and be able to instantly produce solutions when the problem is about to get critical, and people are desperate enough to listen.

*** = "Boss, See attached email, this may be a potential solution. Thanks, Me."

Do that a few (dozen) times and things might get to a point where people come to you for help before everything starts to fall apart.


Patience and humility is a much better combination than frustration and arrogance.

RE: How to survive corporate politics

Everyone is a customer. Your boss, your clients, your co-workers. Figure out how to render effective and diplomatic customer service. That being said, there are people who will not/cannot be pleased, and the trick is identifying them early on, simply do your job as it pertains to them and carry on. If you are in a situation where the culture is shouting, bullying, derogatory, it may be time to move on.

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

RE: How to survive corporate politics

It definitely sounds like you have walked into a job with poor company culture. Many places are like this and as you can tell from some of the responses on here, many are brain washed into thinking that you "gotta do your time" before you have the right in their eyes to do your job or have a say in things. It's quite sad and funny to watch these people act the way they do like there is some kind of righteous legacy to be had by their time at the organization. Here is what I do to get by in a place like you describe:

- Become a minimalist and spend more time talking with good people about hobbies, family, sports, etc to make the days pass faster. I actually avoid talking about work stuff 99% of the time if possible.
- Use as much company time as you can to do personal business. Always have something on the side outside work to keep you occupied.
- Show up 15 minutes late a couple days a week when it's convenient for you. Swing by the donut shop or breakfast diner without guilt.
- Take excessively long lunches and leave at the exact quitting time every day.
- Surf web forums on things you are interested in.
- Build ally coworkers that you can confide in to talk about your frustrations . If you have a problem, there will be many others who feel the same way.
- Be straight and unwavering with people. Treat them well but also plainly say how you feel as if you didn't care if you were fired tomorrow.
- Take as little time as possible to complete your work and give it very little thought. No matter what you do the people there are going to criticize you so no need to try to do a good job.
- Use your cell phone to text and play on apps.

Many of these big companies are very poorly managed and people are hired without a real need for them. As a result you get brought on and marginalized which is difficult to accept coming from a situation where you were productive and respected. Just stick it to the man and one day they should come around or you can find another job and move on.

RE: How to survive corporate politics

We had a great Poe's Law episode where I work some years ago.

At about the same time that we were going through a redundancy round, a couple of pointy-heads from upstairs took the money and landed highly-paid jobs in some management consulting company. It all looked very suspicious. So our chief rabble-raiser wrote a brilliantly satirical entry for our company suggestion scheme (at that time, the nearest thing we had to a soap-box). He suggested an alumni scheme to assist former employees keep in touch for mutal benefit, citing news clippings of the high-paid jobs that our people had walked into.

Result: HR director liked and investigated this excellent idea and implemeted it. The rabble-raiser even won a prize for his suggestion.

- Steve

RE: How to survive corporate politics

SLTA...
Brains, class AND guts.
And a T-square.
And a star.

RE: How to survive corporate politics

* blushes madly *

RE: How to survive corporate politics

3
yup, 4u, juz? Text speak in a professional setting, which this is, will be career limiting. Please do not subject us to it here.

RE: How to survive corporate politics

"I can't stand people who are my superior, but who I view to be less competent than me."
"Because there are at least two people above me who want to be in control."
Well, not only do they want to be in control, they are SUPPOSED to be in control. They ARE in control, if all goes well. That's why we call it "above".
This is what you'll have to accept. It's fundamental. No organisation can work if one part can't tell the other part what to do. If you can't accept that situation, quit the company, you can't work there or in any organisation.
If you accept the situation of having these people above you, and if you feel you can contribute in spite of your very short 4 months experience, make a suggestion in a positive, constructive way. If they tell you thanks but no, try to understand why and make a more effective suggestion next time.
That's all I can say really.

RE: How to survive corporate politics

Quote (Snorgy)

which is when it Might Become Annoying.
rofl

You hide it so well!

slta's solution is a foolproof way of dealing with those who "Might Become Annoying", although I sometimes find myself annoying myself.

RE: How to survive corporate politics

Nick,
Your feeling is more common than you think. Maybe the harsh responses to this thread come from those who have either put the same feeling behind them (with some shame) or haven't had the opportunity to have both confidence and knowledge in certain situations. But... you're also still young. It takes time and patience to carefully examine the basis of your own personal confidence, real or imagined, and it also takes time before you make enough mistakes to start to question how much you really know after all. Sometimes you are the most sure of yourself, just before making the biggest mistake you've ever made. Some calm and humility is all you really need.

I'm not denying that there could be some serious problems with the company's organization, but you'll also have to admit that the solution to many problems is not technical after all, and that you don't always have all the facts (especially if you're a few notches down the chain of command). The opportunity to "sit down with the other contractor and discuss" may be a politically/economically charged situation that isn't obvious to you, who is concerned mostly with the technical aspects of the problem.

Been there, done that...

STF

RE: How to survive corporate politics

Quote (snorgy)

"Then you would only have to deal with all the stupid clients."

There is no such thing as a stupid client.
There is no such thing as a stupid client.
There is no such thing as a stupid client.
There is no such thing as a stupid client.
There is no such thing as a stupid client.

Repeated often enough, I find that to be at least therapeutic. It doesn't work all the time, though, which is when it Might Become Annoying.

Not too many times though, you might eventually become a Moron By Acclamation.

Sam
Brisbane, Australia

Young Engineer. American old west enthusiast

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