Structural fee for existing building investigation
Structural fee for existing building investigation
(OP)
A project has come to fruition and it involves attempting to turn an existing (1) story steel structure into an essential facility (or building new if needed). Before moving forward with the conversion, the client would like me to investigate it to see how much work it would take to convert it if it can be converted at all.
What is a reasonable fee for a feasibility study like this?
Building layout:
Built in 1996
Currently I believe the risk category is III (a bank used to reside here)
Purely rectangular in shape
12,000 sqft
(1) story with approximately 20ft eve height (just a guess from google maps).
I am picking up the plans tomorrow. From the google map image, it appears that it may be a Pre-manufactured metal building, but in the event it isn't, an idea as to where to start with a fee would be helpful. If it's a pre-manufactured metal building I would probably try to contact that manufacturer for there input and see if they actually still have a file for the design.
Thanks for your help
What is a reasonable fee for a feasibility study like this?
Building layout:
Built in 1996
Currently I believe the risk category is III (a bank used to reside here)
Purely rectangular in shape
12,000 sqft
(1) story with approximately 20ft eve height (just a guess from google maps).
I am picking up the plans tomorrow. From the google map image, it appears that it may be a Pre-manufactured metal building, but in the event it isn't, an idea as to where to start with a fee would be helpful. If it's a pre-manufactured metal building I would probably try to contact that manufacturer for there input and see if they actually still have a file for the design.
Thanks for your help






RE: Structural fee for existing building investigation
http://www.nceng.com.au/
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."
RE: Structural fee for existing building investigation
We never give a quote past a 'Preliminary' Condition assessment. This is a visual only investigation, verification of the existing plans, find out if there are any previously written assessment reports, history and then some calculations on the principle structural elements to ball park. Foundations who knows. Reinforced concrete who knows. Lots of stuff is buried either in the ground or behind Architectural. But potential problems areas will pop up and they get mentioned as requiring a detailed investigation in the Preliminary Condition Assessment Report.
THEN, we give a Detailed Condition Assessment proposal which may include, destructive, non-destructive testing, materials testing, test openings, geotechnical investigation etc., etc.,
ASCE 11 is a good Guideline for structural condition assessment of existing building.
Fee? We work out the man-hours and staffing requirements, travel, paper clips.....throw the ball up in the air and take a swing.
We generally seem to under estimate our preliminary assessemnt costs, start getting into line with the detailled investigation costs, and finally are up to speed with the repair/construction drawings
RE: Structural fee for existing building investigation
When I’m selling nuts and bolts or 2x4's, I know the cost of production and my mark-up are and I can put a price on them. When I don’t know what I’m going to see in the way of existing structure and what we might run into in the way of problems with the existing structure, or what it is liable to be used for in the future, I just don’t know how to put a fixed price on that. You are working for your client, and their must be some trust there, that you will do what’s best for him, without runnin up the bill, for the fun of it. If he can’t deal with that, hourly rate, I don’t know how to deal with him. It’s his project and problem, the only thing I have to gain is a few hours of work, which he can cut-off at any time he doesn’t think he’s getting is moneys worth. I shouldn’t have to gamble on what I might find or have to deal with, too give him a good sound engineering assessment of the situation.
RE: Structural fee for existing building investigation
RE: Structural fee for existing building investigation
We insist upon a two stage investigation, and openly show the client the waivers of liability we will use in the report. We then discuss approximate cost for the removal of each waiver.
We are not unhappy to see a client walk away on a job like this. Not only do you need to be afraid of the significant potential liability, you are invariably going to be asked to "just" change this or that, and at that point if you have any lack of information you're not going to be able to design safely enough to satisfy a competent design.
RE: Structural fee for existing building investigation
I will break it into (3) phases:
1) Site visit, plan gathering
2) Metal building analysis from the manufacturer to see if it can be converted. Preliminary foundation calcs
3) Full blown design
I'm basing the fee off of how many days I think I can get the work done at this point.
Thanks for your help.
RE: Structural fee for existing building investigation
Not sure if you are in a high seismic zone, but to bring a pre-engineered building up to current code sounds extremely messy. Maybe I am just being a pessimist. You have both wind and seismic to re-check. Your diaphragm capacity may be very low and inadequate.
RE: Structural fee for existing building investigation
The metal building guys don't think they have the building in their archives. I hadn't thought of checking with the local building department regarding testing and all that. I was going to go off the assumption that he material specified on the plans (if found) was adequate to assume for future rehabilitation.
I do agree, this could be a messy one and way more involved than initially thought.
RE: Structural fee for existing building investigation
The original bldg. designer and manufacturer don’t have the plans and calcs. any longer. You have no idea what materials were used in these hybrid, variable cross section members. Every weld and member element has to be checked, and most of them won’t, by your and my methods. These bldgs. were designed to an older code, and are never designed and fab’ed. with one extra pound of loading, and every advantage is taken of any and all steel code allowances. They do not design and fab. these with future renovation in mind, let alone future upgraded codes, or the prospect that the bldg. importance factor might be upgraded. You can’t put enough hours in your budget for the headaches this job will cause. The owner wanted a cheap bldg., he paid for a cheap bldg., and he will never want to pay you for turning this sow’s ear into a silk purse.
RE: Structural fee for existing building investigation
Note: Clients who are insisting the job go ahead should never object to a retainer following the "this one is very unique and will be cost in you significantly" discussion. Where they balk, expect to have trouble getting paid.
RE: Structural fee for existing building investigation
I'm assuming it qualifies as an essential facility. It will be a State Police Crime Lab. I've been contemplating the validity of classifying it as essential today. Any input on that?
RE: Structural fee for existing building investigation
RE: Structural fee for existing building investigation
If so, and you need to jump to Category IV-- how do you propose to upgrade the components and cladding attachments for the 1.15x bump in load?
I agree with connect2's approach. Preliminary Condition Assessment first, refined fee estimates later. It has been our experience that you can pretty accurately gauge your preliminary fee based upon a strict scope (i.e. I will go out there for one day, I will do a desk review for one day, I will write a report for two days, I will handle misc. calls and meetings for one day, etc.) and provide the best product available based upon that effort. There's your fee, there's your Client's assessment.
If you try to round first base, and guess upfront at everything without knowing everything, you (and your Client) are likely to be unhappily surprised by something.
"We shape our buildings, thereafter they shape us." -WSC
RE: Structural fee for existing building investigation
RE: Structural fee for existing building investigation