Peer review question
Peer review question
(OP)
I have been asked by a building owner to review a structural calculation provided by a unit owner who hired their own structural engineer to perform a renovation/modification to their unit. The review is very small. A single design issue in fact. Problem is that I have looked it over and on first and second review I can't agree with either the methodology or the calculations/conclusions. I flat out believe the calculation is 100% meaningless to the situation. The calculations are sealed by the engineer.
What is the protocol for something like this? I don't want to turn this into a pissing contest or an ethical nightmare.
What is the protocol for something like this? I don't want to turn this into a pissing contest or an ethical nightmare.
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MAP






RE: Peer review question
No reason to protect the reputation of an engineer you don't know, and what he is doing is dangerous. If it is merely a case of he took a fee, produced some nonsensical calcs, and not a life safety issue, I would keep my mouth shut, none of my business.
RE: Peer review question
Do the unit owner and the other engineer know you have been asked to look this over? Maybe the bldg. owner should notify the unit owner and tell him to tell his engineer that you’ll be calling to discuss the project. Start a list of code problems, engineering experience and judgement issues, std. detail or constructibility issues, etc.; reasons why the original design could be trouble, all so that you are well prepared, and have your ducks in order. Call the other engineer and explain who you are and that you have been asked by the bldg. owner to review things for his protection. Don’t start the conversation by reading off a litany of errors, pick a couple which will be hardest for him to argue about. Ask the other engineer what his logic and justification was for some of the most egregious details or conditions, and mention that these are items which will probably prevent permitting for the work. You want to win the first couple rounds, and he ill be much more amenable. Do this in a nice way, at least at first; you want to help him, and this is at the bldg. owners expense, offer simpler, cleaner solutions that will meet code, cost less, etc. And, certainly don’t broadcast the situation beyond the two of you.
RE: Peer review question
Now - I do not (stress -do not-) know that the fix provided won't calculate out to a reasonable solution but the way it is "proven" is most wrong headed. I don't want to FIX the calcs and provide all new ones as that is not what I am hired to do. But... what is the correct response. It feels like such a stupid thing to nail someone for. The Building inspector has taken it at face value already. Did I mention the contractor already performed the work! $#*%! I didn't get enough fee for this one...
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MAP
RE: Peer review question
I am thinking about calling the engineer to ask some very basic questions and see where his head is at.
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MAP
RE: Peer review question
Really though... is it life threatening or an obvious immediate threat to someone? If not... just call the engineer on the phone. You can certainly tell the owner who hired and paid you that you do not agree with it and offer a different solution.
RE: Peer review question
RE: Peer review question
I don’t know what the problem is and haven’t seen your report, so I’m kinda shootin from the hip here. But, you have to have had a good reason for what’s wrong, what the potential danger and damage might be, reasonable fixes, enough calcs. so you know you could complete them and prove your idea and disprove his. You should already have most of this to back up your report. I think you got my drift, at least at first, don’t call him as an adversary. Call him with questions, how does this work, how does this meet the code, what happens if, what if you do this, wouldn’t that improve this issue? I would still talk with the other engineer to try to understand where he’s coming from, but then tell the bldg. owner what’s wrong with the fix and calcs. and let him handle it; that is, insist on a proper fix or removal and repair.
RE: Peer review question
Are you willing to pay for all this if the so-called engineer in question brings in another engineer that supports his nonsense calcs? Do you enjoy tangling with lawyers?
I would for the record :
1) Say the calculations by the other engineer are not clearly presented.
2) Ask the building unit owner to write a hold-harmless letter for your sake, and unless he is willing and able to pay for the re-design and re-construction, I would walk away from this situation without disturbing the hornet's nest.
3) Don't let your frustration about not getting enough fee cause you to do something that increases your liability. We have enough scourges in this world what with civil wars, human trafficking, and starvation, don't become a new case for the lawyers too.
RE: Peer review question
For the record I have not been retained by the owner to Solve the problem. I am acting as the owners expert to review and advise them. The Unit owner/tenent is fully on the hook for the issue and the fix and making everything right. If I said it is bull#$!@ then the building owner would back me (I think). I really don't want to provide the fix anyway. I don't want to give an engineer a blind side either and have him call me up to the board for being a jerk. Just need help navigating this water of ethics/protocol/etc when two engineering are representing opposite sides.
The fee comment was for my stress level and PITA factor.
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MAP
RE: Peer review question
If it doesn't cost the tenant, than why should he care?
RE: Peer review question
I would call the engineer, as others have indicated, and ask him to quickly layout his logic for the work that has been done and his calculations. If he doesn't make sense, I would say that I'm somewhat confused by his discussion and see if he offers any additonal reasons as to why he chose to approach the calculations the way he did. Then say that you are going to look at the calculations again in light of this discussion and thank him for his time. This way you have given him the chance to explain what he did and why he did it and indicated that you might not agree.
Thereafter, you should write a letter to your client stating that you have reviewed the calculations and that there are problems with the way the information is presented and some/most of the choices. Include a list of the major issues and say that for you to complete your review additional information from the unit owners engineer will be required. Keep it simple and professional.
What you do after this point depends mostly on what your client and the unit owner's engineer do. If they resubmit calculations that appear reasonable, then you are good to go. If they say, nothing is wrong with their original calculations; you probably indicate to your client that you disagree and it is their choice.
One other thing that you need to check out. What does your state's code of ethics/professional conduct say about knowledge of a deficient design produced by others? You may have a requirement to report this situation to your state board. I know that no one wants to do this, ever; but the state rules/laws may require it.
Good luck.
Mike Lambert