Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
(OP)
I am trying to come with a solution to seal engineered poles or beams for long term ground contact. Actually will be concreted in place but the general understanding with wood rot is the combination of O2 and water is what causes rot. Either is missing and rot does not occur?
I have seen everything from tar, to plastic bags, to injections to protect the wood. I am considering a bit more invasive operation of fiberglassing the outside of the beams. I know fiberglass would have the durability and longevity for this application but I do have concern of locking in any moisture and thoughts of any dimensional changes of the lumber causing issues?
I have also thought of some type of molten plastic dip as well. I just don't think people take this issue seriously enough as it seems to be the prime issue regarding these types of structures.
I have seen everything from tar, to plastic bags, to injections to protect the wood. I am considering a bit more invasive operation of fiberglassing the outside of the beams. I know fiberglass would have the durability and longevity for this application but I do have concern of locking in any moisture and thoughts of any dimensional changes of the lumber causing issues?
I have also thought of some type of molten plastic dip as well. I just don't think people take this issue seriously enough as it seems to be the prime issue regarding these types of structures.





RE: Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
Simple barrier materials will be breached and then retain moisture. Use good drainage if possible.
Check the US Forest Product Laboratory for information; they support "Durability and Wood Protection Research"
RE: Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
I do not believe Creosote is available for all parties? IE highly toxic and likely to leach, possibly into water? I guess I am trying to use something that is safe but I assume safe also means safe for critters too... I have no remorse for wood eating critters.....Terminites be my biggest frustration.
I know Borates are common treatments but I want a 100yr plan in place whether that is with injection tubing by the wood or what not.
RE: Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
RE: Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
RE: Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
I guess I am open to ideas. Still trying to toss the idea of concrete around all the poles. great for firm connection and stiffness but possibly will retain water?
All in all, every effort will be made to drain water away from these areas which I think is a prime reason of failure in most of these types.
RE: Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
Are you thinking of pour in place or precast?
RE: Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
If you have livestock that like to chew on wood, a common method of preventing contact is a sheet metal collar around the treated base.
Also, if this is inside, the barn, your floor should be dry, unless you have run through from a higher elevation.
B.E.
You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.
RE: Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
http://www.lonestarprestress.com/utility_poles.htm
B.E.
You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.
RE: Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
Regarding concrete poles, I would be looking for dimensional products so lumber can attach easily. I do like the idea. many have said just to build an Ibeam building but the interior build out is much more difficult and alterations later are a problem. Already had issues with tension cables in the way. Wood is just more modular. Just need to ensure my connection to the ground is well designed.
RE: Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
http://www.midwestpermacolumn.com/about.html
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
Utility poles, even the ones preserved with creosote, had a maximum life of less than 50 years on average. Many were replaced in the 20 to 30 year range. Those were well treated, partly because of the critical nature of their service.
A barrier system won't work as others have noted. For design, consider pole embedment and forget the concrete. If you want a concrete slab, isolate the slab from the poles with a coating of asphalt mastic.
RE: Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
They said the wooden columns were soaked in ox blood.
RE: Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
The timbers were mostly oak, the main frames were about 12 to 14 inches square.
In the 19 60s we discovered that the house had suffered a major beetle attack and had to treat the whole house with Cuprinol wood preservative.
B.E.
You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.
RE: Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
My brother had done extensive work with polymer modified concrete which might really come in handy here. I was thinking of a custom formed in-ground pier with a dimensional top to attach a custom steel beam mount similar to what was linked. However, it would seem mounting at low as feasible and maybe making the dimensional part a bit wider would better ensure there are no failures there.
Do you guys have any expanded thoughts or ideas on this method of build? I will have to look closer at loads to see how much bending is really on that beam. I seem to remember that uplift is a primary concern but can be easily mitigated with uplift lugs of about any type.
Ron, I did not understand what you meant with "pole embedment but forget the concrete". It sure seems concrete would be the only answer in the ground for lifetime performance? Or stone I guess.
All in all, I would need to devise a slick build style that would be both fast and economical. I have a full machine shop so planned to make the steel connections and such.
Thanks again guys!!! Always get some great ideas here.
RE: Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
RE: Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
What are you thinking for a long life pole system? I really like the idea of concrete but setting the lumber in top would seem to build some really high concentrations right at the connection.
RE: Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
Have Fun!
James A. Pike
www.xl4sim.com
www.erieztechnologies.com
RE: Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
Any embedded posts or 2X lumber I've been around have been TIGHT. A few times folks greased up some slightly tapered 2X for removeable formwork and they could not even be chiseled out. Maybe after 15 or 20 years its a different story.
RE: Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
Any embedded posts or 2X lumber I've been around have been TIGHT. A few times folks greased up some slightly tapered 2X for removeable formwork and they could not even be chiseled out. Maybe after 15 or 20 years its a different story.
RE: Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
RE: Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
RE: Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
However, I still have to design for tornado failures and rebuilding. The first thought that came to my mind in a pole system is, "when the poles snap off flush with the slab, how do you fix that?" My design originally was to sister additional lumber on each side of the poles up a few ft from the ground to promote failure above ground.
RE: Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
Note that your local building code will probably require that either the bare posts or the concrete columns will have to go down four feet to keep them from frost heaving. Mine are only six years old but I suspect my great grand children will have to auction the barn off.
Bob Price
Bob Price
A*G*M
RE: Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
A member above shared a link to concrete posts which gave me some ideas. However, I think the concrete blend will have to be polymerized, possibly add glass, and a good rebar structure just to ensure that area could never fail before the wood poles.
I am also considering that this is getting into a rather complete build design....Pole barns are supposed to be SIMPLE! lol
RE: Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.
RE: Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
Bob Price
A*G*M
RE: Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
Code in Virginia 1807.3
http://www.ecodes.biz/ecodes_support/free_resource...
Colorado "guide"
http://www.coloradochaptericc.org/pole-barn2k09.pd...
concrete embedded pressure treated poles seem to be the "standard" , at least if I'm trying to avoid needing an engineers approval
RE: Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
That is how (with the exception of the sonotubes) the overhang on my Mother's barn was supported. The house is 200 years old but the barn is newer, probably only ~100 years old. We had to replace one of the corner support posts last year because the gutter downspout had rusted out and was letting the water run down the post. If that had been maintained properly the post would still be as good as the others. Had to jack up that corner of the barn and replace the 12" square by 8' long post. We used solid oak. This post won't take any bending loads.
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RE: Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
But our 40x60'x20'h pole barn with metal siding weighs NOTHING. Such a joint in OH winds would simply blow it away! It is like a sailing ship. There is no way I would ever even contemplate anything less than solid cca treated 8x8 BURIED below frost line timber for the vertical supports. If you any less you will not have to worry about it standing 100yrs!
www.KilroyWasHere<dot>com
RE: Considerations for sealing wood beams for ground contact
Or just use one of the many commercially available connectors that are made exactly for this situation. This one for example: http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/cbsq....