Same Engineer Checking and Stamping a Calculation
Same Engineer Checking and Stamping a Calculation
(OP)
Is it wrong for an engineer to be the designated checker of a calculation and stamp the calculation with his seal?
Scenario:
EIT prepares calculation based on design that was directed by the PE. The PE checks the EIT's calculation. The PE then stamps the calculation.
Thanks for the input.
Scenario:
EIT prepares calculation based on design that was directed by the PE. The PE checks the EIT's calculation. The PE then stamps the calculation.
Thanks for the input.





RE: Same Engineer Checking and Stamping a Calculation
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RE: Same Engineer Checking and Stamping a Calculation
RE: Same Engineer Checking and Stamping a Calculation
RE: Same Engineer Checking and Stamping a Calculation
RE: Same Engineer Checking and Stamping a Calculation
If you found an error, I'd bet good money that you would have "input" to get it fixed before you stamped it. The stamp is your certification that the analysis is correct; would you trust someone else to check something that you're going to stamp and incur liability on?
TTFN

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RE: Same Engineer Checking and Stamping a Calculation
RE: Same Engineer Checking and Stamping a Calculation
Cheers
Greg Locock
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RE: Same Engineer Checking and Stamping a Calculation
You might be confusing the functions and responsibilities of the PE and a separate QC reviewer. As the PE, you are responsible to check any and all work that will receive your stamp, whether done by an EIT, a subordinate PE, or by yourself. So, if an EIT is doing a calc for you, you should have an appropriate level of input from beginning to end of the calc process. For example, you should establish the criteria and objectives for the calc, provide relevant information, answer questions, and, yes, check the final product.
If your company has a formal (or even informal) QA/QC process, then another PE, with at least your level of experience, will be called upon to review the project at some level of detail. In my experience, minor calcs don't usually get reviewed, but critical calcs should be separately reviewed along with the plans and specs.
I hope this helps.
Fred
==========
"Is it the only lesson of history that mankind is unteachable?"
--Winston S. Churchill
RE: Same Engineer Checking and Stamping a Calculation
RE: Same Engineer Checking and Stamping a Calculation
How you get to good quality is usually left up to the discretion of the firm or the engineer.
RE: Same Engineer Checking and Stamping a Calculation
QC requirements and procedures are company-specific and vary quite a bit. The larger firms tend to have very formal and elaborate requirements and procedures. Some small firms I know of (mostly development engineering types…a.k.a. "land butchers"
That being said, even the best QC program and the best QC reviewers cannot find every errors or even every major error. That's why the PE who is putting his/her stamp on the work must be rigorous about checking it, and even then errors can slip through.
Fred
==========
"Is it the only lesson of history that mankind is unteachable?"
--Winston S. Churchill
RE: Same Engineer Checking and Stamping a Calculation
TTFN

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RE: Same Engineer Checking and Stamping a Calculation
A point of clarification: Most civil and structural consulting firms that I know of are not ISO certified and I suspect this is true nationwide. As far as I know, only the largest consulting firms are ISO certified. In my line of work (mostly municipal infrastructure planning and design), I have never encountered a requirement from a client to be ISO certified.
Fred
==========
"Is it the only lesson of history that mankind is unteachable?"
--Winston S. Churchill
RE: Same Engineer Checking and Stamping a Calculation
TTFN

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RE: Same Engineer Checking and Stamping a Calculation
sorry to say but ISO 9001 is total BS
ISO 9001 consists of issuing a paper stating you have your own In-House QC program.
Say you are manufacturing junk, in the assembly line you have a person checking that only Junk is produced, if a good part is produced, you remove it and say AHA, this is not junk.
and there you have it, you are ISO 9001 certified.
Most companies with ISO 9001 don't have a clue about their own QA/QC program even with their ISO 9001 on the bragging board. there is nothing measurable, ISO does not offer any tools to perform the so-called QA/QC. ISO is in the business of selling hot air, typical of anything coming from Europe.
ISO is a rip-off for US businesses. For our industry in the US, try Energy Star
Energy star has done a comparison with it's ISO counterpart (ISO 54001), you'd be amazed on how BS these ISO falks are.
RE: Same Engineer Checking and Stamping a Calculation
RE: Same Engineer Checking and Stamping a Calculation
EIT prepares calculation based on design that was directed by the PE. The PE checks the EIT's calculation. The PE then stamps the calculation."
Isn't the point of being an Engineer In Training that you do work as directed by a Professional Engineer, then the Professional Engineer checks to make sure the work is done correctly. If so, you get a sticker. If not, you get remedial training?
Also lol@ ISO. I love reading "We're ISO 9001 compliant / certified!" It's basically an expensive pat on the back for doing what you say you'll do, and having a documented procedure for saying it.
Experience: accumulated knowledge over time.
Talent: the ability to use experience.
Which is more valuable?
RE: Same Engineer Checking and Stamping a Calculation
It has nothing to do with 'quality', unless you document your quality requirements and verifications as part of your procedures.
RE: Same Engineer Checking and Stamping a Calculation
Oh, and this is based on ISO9001 as I saw it in Aerospace/Defense where they tend to care more about such things than in many other industries.
Or is my cynic setting on high this morning.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Same Engineer Checking and Stamping a Calculation
Big in manufacturing. In my area of consulting, it was tried in the labs, but didn't fly because of all the other legitimate criteria.
RE: Same Engineer Checking and Stamping a Calculation
OK, I will get started. CMMI -- Capability Maturity Model Integration is supposed to rank organizations as to their compliance to the systems engineering tenets of CMMI; things like process improvement, modelling, requirements analysis, etc. As with ISO9001, organizations get audited by a third party for compliance. But, in CMMI, there are specific artifacts and processes that are supposed to in place. Level 5 is the highest ranking, but only a small group within any given organization needs to be audited for CMMI compliance, which means that other groups within a CMMI 5 organization could be real stinkers, as we've experienced with a couple of "evil" empires that had that certification.
At the end of the day, any organization's quality is only as good as the discipline exerted by the members of that organization. If there's no discipline or no support from upper management, then GIGO.
TTFN

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RE: Same Engineer Checking and Stamping a Calculation
KENAT, I have worked as a design engineer in the US aerospace industry for over 20 years. During this time I have worked for both big OEMs like Boeing, and for small companies with less than a dozen employees. So I have experienced how a QA process like AS9100 works with very large and very small aerospace companies. In my opinion, the implementation of AS9100 throughout the US aerospace business has been a great thing. If you look at the amazing safety record of US commercial aircraft operations over the past few years, it's mostly due to rigid conformance to QA processes like AS9100.
QA processes like AS9100 are not BS. If you've ever looked at the procedures AS9100 requires for controlling and validating every step of design, analysis, documentation, procurement, manufacturing, inspection, etc, what they do is force everyone involved in the process to double-check and document that they have not made any mistakes in their work. And if there is a quality/performance problem with the delivered product, the AS9100 documentation makes it easy to diagnose and correct the problem.