How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer?
How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer?
(OP)
I almost have my Industrial Engineering degree and thinking of master studies in mechanical. I looked through job market again and was surprised.
It is said that there's no problem for an engineer to find a job but the requirements are so high nowadays. They ask for experience, languages, skills in software I was never introduced to during my studies. I've seen no job ads that I'd be qualified to after my graduation. How do fresh engineers start off in the job market then?
It is said that there's no problem for an engineer to find a job but the requirements are so high nowadays. They ask for experience, languages, skills in software I was never introduced to during my studies. I've seen no job ads that I'd be qualified to after my graduation. How do fresh engineers start off in the job market then?





RE: How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer?
Dan - Owner
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RE: How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer?
I don't see that there should be that much expectation for a new graduate to have that much experience. Obviously, internships will, at the minimum, put you a rung or two further up the ladder than the typical new grad, so you should definitely avail yourself to them. However, most internships amount to being gophers, so the level of expectation can be very low. If you do get an internship, it's really up to you to extract as much useful experience as possible; do not rely on someone else doing that for you.
You should take advantage of on-campus job fairs, interviews, etc. in those situations, there are no expectations of extensive experience, so if you miss out on those, you will be at a disadvantage when looking for a job in the open market.
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RE: How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer?
The other thing to remember is that job descriptions are sometimes what is referred to as "purple squirrels" job postings. They simply want things that don't exist (and often at a level of compensation that is ridiculous). Don't be too discouraged by overly optimistic job descriptions. While you shouldn't be applying for VP or management level jobs, applying for a position that sounds slightly out of your qualifications means you are probably applying for a job you are qualified for. In the meantime, do everything you can now to show some leadership and demonstrate that you stand out from your peers (take on a position in a professional society, participate in research, be flexible in job location or responsibilities).
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RE: How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer?
I'll also echo the more experienced guys: on- and off-campus job fairs are great jumping off points, and university career services are great since employers in contact with them expect fresh grads who are greener than Kermit. Also, you'll only have access to those career services for a brief period of time- I know my school only provides them for one semester after you gradute.
If you're willing to move (and/or spend a year or two in limbo), there should be plenty of opportunities for you around the country.
RE: How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer?
An example " Mechanical engineer with Cad experience, 10 years of Solidworks 2014 required."
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You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.
RE: How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer?
Personally, I got a job based on a specific posting that I was not completely qualified for; but I knew the manager, so
If you don't try for those jobs, you'll never know if you could have gotten them. Be persistent; he who hesitates is lost.
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RE: How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer?
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RE: How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer?
And another thing about the published "Help Wanted" ads. A lot of them used to be (I'm not sure how they are today, last time I did it was 20 years ago), decoys to get someone a permanant visa. You'd have an employee and his/her student visa was about to run out. So if the employer wanted to keep the employee, they'd have to put their job on the open market. To discourage a lot of applicants, they'd put in every bit of software, training and other knowledge that employee has in the ad as a requirement. It didn't mean they were vital, just a way to customize the job opening. If you see those unrealistic ads, apply anyway. If they need that one person, they might need another. And even if you don't know every bit of software in the ad, you might have other outstanding attributes.
RE: How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer?
Obtained a great position when I had to move into a new area for family reasons just as I was graduating, by going line by line through the yellow pages.
Later, was laid off in the early 80s recession at 5pm friday afternoon, did the yellow pages thing Saturday morning, a two man shop answered and I said I figured if you were working Saturday you need some help. Got the job.
Neither one was advertising.
Now, when I hire, I look for initiative, which is a hard thing to discern. So I look for the little things like a call out of the blue, or a follow up from an interview or a second follow up from an email, or anything .....
Good Luck!
RE: How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer?
It also bugs me that "lead engineer" roles, which are described in duty / function as basically one step up from engineering minion, are listed with 10-15 years experience required.
I'm at the point of transition between advanced entry level to lead engineer, and I'm finding the same frustrations as the OP.
Where do people get these insane ideas? All it's doing is pushing young talent away from industry and towards self-employment, small business, etc. It's hurtful to the industrial base. What's wrong with bringing in that young talent and drive, and you know... training / developing them. Oh, it costs too much? So, the constant vacillation of semi-qualified, outsourced labor pool and a couple of should-be-engineering-managers-with-10-15-years-experience who leave after 2 years for greener pastures totally justifies the miniscule savings over just hiring right / training / development in the first place.
Ok that was a bit of a rant, but come on. When will the madness stop? Entry level means entry level. Don't list 3-5 years experience required for an entry level job. It's just plain idiotic. And don't try to get an Engineering Manager at a Lead Engineer salary, because you will create for yourself massive retention issues of that's your general strategy.
Experience: accumulated knowledge over time.
Talent: the ability to use experience.
Which is more valuable?
RE: How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer?
I didn't have good luck with my career center back then. It was a bit underdeveloped for STEM type jobs. I would say it's a good starting point for some basics, but look elsewhere when it comes to the details. Unless, of course, your career center is operated within your engineering school, by those from the engineering disciplines. That would be a completely different case.
A resume for a sales job will look completely different than a resume for an engineering job. A cover letter will look different.
I've had great luck with Monster resources, and Linked In is a great networking tool. Throw those into the pot. When it comes to writing a resume, be progressive. B. E. Progressive. There's a ton of templates to be found on the internet.
Lastly, don't just settle for some job just because it's a job. What are your hobbies? What do you want to be doing in 5-10 years? Find a place which provides you with a foundation to support you, not them. Why? Because they have no issues with letting people go to help their business. And when you get sick of being tossed around, you'll need solid ground to stand on when you start your own gig. Don't be afraid to treat a job like a stepping stone to a higher goal. These advisors say they want ambition and initiative... well, give them exactly that. And when they can't match you, they have to accept you'll move on to someone who will. Play their game exactly how they've asked you to play it... with drive, tenacity, passion, initiative, and more ambition than they can keep up with.
Experience: accumulated knowledge over time.
Talent: the ability to use experience.
Which is more valuable?
RE: How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer?
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer?
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RE: How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer?
As others said here, job ad "requirements" are to be understood as a wish list rather than something which decides whether or not your resume gets thrown in the shredder.
Plenty of firms hiring fresh grads? Perhaps- but there's a sh*tload of fresh grads on the market these days, and a wide fraction of those eng grads are not finding eng work. And employers still b*tch about a "shortage of skilled workers", i.e. the fresh grads they didn't hire 10 years prior. They're reaping what they've sown- I just hope the coming demographic shift wipes out some of these bottom-feeders.
No co-op experience? Then it's either the job fair/university placement program route, which might work for you if your marks are awesome, or it's going to come down to connections. Them that's got, shall have, them that's not, shall lose...typically "connections" means "parents" if you're a kid fresh out of school.
None of that working? Then it's shoe leather- pounding the pavement. Guaranteed, if you never leave your computer screen, you're not going to find anything.
Tried to give triangled a star, but it wouldn't let me (something wrong with my browser?). Richly deserved- creative, phoning companies on a Friday to see who answers! I liked business directories rather than just the Yellow Pages, but perhaps you'd be able to find more 2-man shops with the Yellow Pages- too bad they're in the dustbin of history now- websites are no substitute.
RE: How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer?
I disagree heartily with the assumption that a Lead Engineer takes 15-20+ years to grow. A Lead Engineer is one step up from Engineering Minion in the current industry culture, and the step after that is Engineering Manager. After that, Director of Engineering.
In any case, your assertion just proves my original point that the scale is skewed, biased towards the end. So with your logic, we're all Entry Level Engineers for 15+ years before somehow, magically, we wake up one day with enough experience to take that single next step. It's ludicrous... and while the Boomer generation is retiring and leaving the workforce en-mass, this reluctance to allow a more normalized scale of responsibility and training is creating HUGE gaps in the available qualified engineers for those interim positions.
Well done! You've shot us all in the foot! lol
Experience: accumulated knowledge over time.
Talent: the ability to use experience.
Which is more valuable?
RE: How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer?
"i.e. the fresh grads they didn't hire 10 years prior. They're reaping what they've sown- I just hope the coming demographic shift wipes out some of these bottom-feeders."
"They" are indeed reaping what they've sown, as I've suggested. And I also agree that the upcoming demographic will need to establish a clean slate from which to build / grow. Which, to me, is why things like Maker Bot, Facebook, Twitter, the Open Source / DIY market, etc. are all so inspiring. To me, those things represent an entire generation of people sick of the archaic formulas for success.
Experience: accumulated knowledge over time.
Talent: the ability to use experience.
Which is more valuable?
RE: How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer?
RE: How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer?
Experience: accumulated knowledge over time.
Talent: the ability to use experience.
Which is more valuable?
RE: How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer?
You should, perhaps, but that doesn't mean you'll get them.
" A Lead Engineer is one step up from Engineering Minion in the current industry culture, and the step after that is Engineering Manager. After that, Director of Engineering."
That says nothing about the size of the steps. I've been in the same company for 12 years, now and we've had exactly one engineering manager change in a total of 3 departments.
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RE: How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer?
And I'm not swayed by the discouragement. I know my value. I bust my tail every day. I push to be better every day. I am exactly what I need to be to surpass where you were at my age. If you're bitter about that, there's nothing I can do for you.
The bigger point here is that we don't seem to have a shortage of Engineers entering the work force, what we have is an abundance of entrenched opinion and ego preventing that new talent from seamlessly integrating into the ranks. What we have is an entire generation of people who were encouraged to go to school, took on massive debts to do so, and who graduated into a recession. We have a "bubble" of education which is about to pop, and those of us who played into the idea of "work hard, go to school, get a good job" have been left a bit disgruntled by what seems to have been empty promises.
So, again, I think we should re-think reality. What worked for you early in your career no longer applies. And to the OP I still say: rock on with your bad self. Don't slack... definitely work hard and push to gain what you earn. But don't let someone else tell you where you should be. Don't let their fear of your talent keep you caged underneath them where they can remain comfortable and un-threatened. If they want to just keep on doing what they've always done, they're the problem. If they don't want to evolve to compete with the younger, better talent... their problem. Hooray, Capitalism in action!
And when all else fails, and you find too many potential employers who are too scared to take you under their wing... grow your own wings. You are getting a Master's? Good. Start a business. Work at McDonald's (I hear they're raising minimum wage soon!) until your business takes off. Then, when you're outpacing those who stubbornly remained set in their ways... they'll wish they had given you a chance.
Idealistic? Ok. Carnegie, Zuckerberg, Buffet, Gates, Jobs, etc. Don't let someone else's surrender to the Status Quo bring you down.
Experience: accumulated knowledge over time.
Talent: the ability to use experience.
Which is more valuable?
RE: How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer?
For instance to me the difference between 'Lead Engineer' and 'Engineering Manager' has bugger all to do with length of service and everything to do with the job role. To me Lead Engineer implies some kind of primarily technical lead, while Engineering Manager implies someone that primarily manages Engineers. However, that's my definition based on my experience and I don't necessarily expect it to apply to other people.
Back to the OP, there have been a bunch of threads about how to get first job for new grads etc. If you want to show some initiative as Triangled suggests then go look through them, see what you can learn and then maybe come back here post what you think you've learned and see what folks have to say about that.
Few comments, I got my first job by looking through the membership section of a relevant Industry organizations directory at the local library and sending hard copies of my resume with a cover letter to any companies that looked remotely interesting. One of those letters landed on the desk of the technical director the very day they were going to run an add in the local news paper to fill a position.
So don't just apply to posted job adds, apply to any potential employer.
My second job actually came from having my resume on one of the job websites - so they aren't completely useless but certainly shouldn't be your only or even your primary approach.
However, just because those approaches worked for my doesn't mean they'll work for you, and just because some approaches haven't worked for me doesn't mean they wont for you. For instance I've found 'pounding the street' pointless (if I'm lucky someone will actually take my resume and give me a business card and tell me to apply to their online recruiting website or similar) but many others swear by it and I'm not going to suggest they're wrong.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer?
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RE: How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer?
I don't disagree about the pyramid structure, and the difficulties associated with that, and the flattening of the org structures. What I disagree with is using all of that as a measure of a person's potential value, as has been the more traditional method. Hence, we need to re-think our reality.
Resources for finding jobs, finding resume building workshops, etc. are great. The key is to identify what you want to do, and where you want to be in 5-10 years, and trying to find a good match from the available options. There's a bit of luck to that, but don't be afraid of what some refer to as "job hopping." There's nothing wrong with realizing you're on the wrong path after gaining some additional experience. In fact, someone who is in touch with themselves enough to know when it's time to switch gears is a great asset... so long as they're always seeking opportunities which align better with their personal goals.
I like this topic. And I like those who have contributed. Yey!
Experience: accumulated knowledge over time.
Talent: the ability to use experience.
Which is more valuable?
RE: How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer?
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RE: How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer?
I think we're using different titles, hence the gap. To me, an "entry level" has a fresh degree to a few years experience. But there's a slew of titles in between (at least in my industry)... Engineer, Sr. Engineer, Principle Engineer, Engineering Lead, etc. I did not mean to suggest that someone must remain titled "entry level" for 15 years.
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer?
Enginerd9 I like your signature and I think it touches on this topic as well; I think people get sidetracked with "number of years of experience" both in the writing and applying for the job descriptions and when looking at advancement. As far as applying for jobs goes, to the OP I say ignore the experience requirement and apply if you think you can do the job (or be trained to in a reasonable time frame). To me, the number of years experience needs to be looked at closely when using it as a metric to gauge ability. I had a boss who summed it up with "15 years industry experience is great... but do you want to hire the guy with 15 years experience in grade 4?". People learn at different rates (some near zero), and the quality of peoples experience varies significantly, so if you are a fast (above average) learner, have had good quality experience in the past and don't make the same mistake more than about twice (never met anyone who doesn't repeat some mistakes at least once) then certainly don't let anyone slap a "only x years of experience" label on you; demand, where you can, that they look at your ability objectively, and be ready to back it up with performance.
As far as LinkedIn goes I would love to know if anyone puts any stock in it besides its use as a medium for making cold call connections. I see many profiles of people I know, endorsed for skills that they don't have (or are bad at), and I routinely have to reject endorsements for skills that I have no clue about, from people who haven't the foggiest idea what I actually do or what my skillset is. I have taken to thinking it is the worlds most padded, useless bit of resume information.
My take at looking for a new job is to be as targeted as possible, beat the streets if you need to, but remember when it comes to applying, it is a relative value game, not an absolute value one. To an employer, all your skills have a specific relative value that may be vastly different than what you have assigned it, and it will vary between employers. If you can read between the lines to focus on your skills (however long it took to acquire) that are of specific value to them (bonus points if you can show them that being proficient in 5 CAD packages, or whatever bit of nonsense is in the ad, is useless if they only use one, but that's a risky little ego game) and show them that you are a good fit for the position (skills, attitude, learning aptitude, ability to work the with existing team and corporate environment) then you will be surprised at how many "requirements" suddenly evaporate.
RE: How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer?
Upward mobility is a buzzword the career advisors use a lot, and a lot of the more energetic Engineering leaders may use it as well. But when reality sets in, they don't like being shown that one "fast learner" because it means they have to make room in their organizational structure for someone who could, at some point, out pace them. I actually picked up a book mentioned in another thread: How to Work for an Idiot. It's been a great read! And it talks about the bosses who are afraid of talented young professionals who, they view, are a threat to their position. So, they stifle them... they kill the talent to make sure they stay on top. Well, I disagree with that. I think it's no way to proliferate an industry, and to ensure a strong future.
Hence why I disagree with just accepting the status quo as far as organizational structure. I do not think there is continued merit in a "corporate ladder" system of rungs and milestones, which can simply be moved as the people higher up see fit for their own advantage. These different titles, different structures, etc. are just muddying the water, smoke screen. Even though the trend has moved to a more flattened strategy in some places, these old, archaic ideals are still prevalent.
I'd be completely fine with "Engineering Minion" as a title, so long as my pay and compensation appropriately matched my performance. I don't care about titles. But since the job market is constructed around them, I have to use them to some extent.
... rambling. Thanks!
Experience: accumulated knowledge over time.
Talent: the ability to use experience.
Which is more valuable?
RE: How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer?
I, for one, am not one of them, so I don't even know what my job classification is. But, the world is full of diverse people, and there are those that "must" know their classification level and salary range.
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RE: How to be more successful in the job market for a new engineer?
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