Contractor Games
Contractor Games
(OP)
A contractor we work with, and up to this point have had a pretty good relationship with, has started making a habit of having an engineer employed by one of their subcontractor's review our design (we are the EOR). Sometimes it's a "if you constructed it this way we could save $". Other times it's "we need to get your structural loads so we can redesign your foundation". It's this second case which has become quite disturbing to me. This has occurred on both design-build and traditional projects and across all disciplines we work with.
I believe that, in general, we are pretty open to ideas and best practices. After all, if it's better then we want to understand and improve our design to accommodate it. But this constant "we need your loads so someone else can design it better" thing is starting to get me a little miffed.
Just curious if:
1) others are experiencing this and is this just the changing nature of our industry?
2) as the EOR, do I have any obligation at all to furnish my design criteria/loads? Even in a "design build" scenario?
3) do I have a right to feel slighted by the willingness of another engineer to "improve" my design?
I believe that, in general, we are pretty open to ideas and best practices. After all, if it's better then we want to understand and improve our design to accommodate it. But this constant "we need your loads so someone else can design it better" thing is starting to get me a little miffed.
Just curious if:
1) others are experiencing this and is this just the changing nature of our industry?
2) as the EOR, do I have any obligation at all to furnish my design criteria/loads? Even in a "design build" scenario?
3) do I have a right to feel slighted by the willingness of another engineer to "improve" my design?
PE, SE
Eastern United States
"If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death!"
~Code of Hammurabi





RE: Contractor Games
I know that this is not exactly the same, but I'm thinking your problem can be solved the same way. Ask "who's paying for the time you are spending redoing the work we've been paid to perform?" with a copy to the client. I would bet that the client will not be happy if the answer is that they are being billed for that time.
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
Law is the common force organized to act as an obstacle of injustice Frédéric Bastiat
RE: Contractor Games
1) No. Most of the contractors have no use for engineers until they're in trouble.
2) Only to whoever is paying us. If it a design build, you owe it to the contractor.
3) Heck yes! Unless they're willing to reseal the work, they're violating the code and the Engineering Act of your state. And once they seal it, they own it. The whole design belongs to them. I wonder if their insurance carrier knows about that.
RE: Contractor Games
If it is a genuine peer review, that should also have been provided for when you contracted to do the design.
RE: Contractor Games
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RE: Contractor Games
IRStuff, they based their bids on what they "felt" the design should be, not what we were actually showing. I have a feeling that this feel is based a lot on what the subs are telling them is the right design instead of what we are designing. It's really about the sub selling them on a more lean design which doesn't take into account all the things we are and then they feel ours is "over designed"...although it's really a comparison between a complete design and one that someone throws together.
PE, SE
Eastern United States
"If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death!"
~Code of Hammurabi
RE: Contractor Games
RE: Contractor Games
2) I would think it would depend on the terms of your contract with your client. If it isn't explicitly in the deliverables list then I think you wouldn't be obligated to so long as you provided a complete system in the design documents.
3) It would seem like a vote of no confidence from the contractor.
RE: Contractor Games