440C Stainless fastener problem
440C Stainless fastener problem
(OP)
Hi All,
I am having a major problem with a 440C fastener heat treated to 53-55HRC. It does have a sharp corner at the bottom of the slot so not sure if this is causing a stress riser or if I am just overlooking something but I have about a 10% fail rate. When put under lite torque (just by hand screw drivers) the heads seem to shatter on the male side only. Sometimes they can set there for 1 hour or more and then fail. But we have put some under decent pull force to try and create a fail and could not. What am I missing?
Thanks in advance,
I am having a major problem with a 440C fastener heat treated to 53-55HRC. It does have a sharp corner at the bottom of the slot so not sure if this is causing a stress riser or if I am just overlooking something but I have about a 10% fail rate. When put under lite torque (just by hand screw drivers) the heads seem to shatter on the male side only. Sometimes they can set there for 1 hour or more and then fail. But we have put some under decent pull force to try and create a fail and could not. What am I missing?
Thanks in advance,





RE: 440C Stainless fastener problem
RE: 440C Stainless fastener problem
440C is not a good choice as a fastener material. Since you are probably machining the part 100% before heat treat, the fracture failures are likely due to quench cracking. The quench cracks will form on the surface of the part, so they can be easily detected with a quick penetrant inspection.
If you need a high-strength, corrosion-resistant material for a threaded fastener, you might consider something like PH 13-8 Mo or 718 Inconel instead.
Hope that helps.
Terry
RE: 440C Stainless fastener problem
Yes, we are machining the part 100% before heat treat. They are pretty small so are being quenched in air. I will look at those two materials but at max HRC, IIRC, is high 40's and may not be hard enough for my customers requirements. We use to make them out of 416SS at 40 HRC and the only complaint we had then was they marred up to easy on assembly and they wanted a little better corrosion resistance.
Thanks that did help and had a feeling it was material but couldn't help but wonder if it was geometry at that hardness.
RE: 440C Stainless fastener problem
At a previous employer we had some larger threaded components we were over hardening which cracked under the 'head' and found that adding a radius ed undercut helped. However, I'm not sure you'd have the space/material.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: 440C Stainless fastener problem
No not much. It is threaded 8-32. We could possibly get a very small undercut in there. It has been a very weird case. Most, 95%, have broke in connection with the slot on top but a few have just broke off the threaded portion/stud. We have done a pull test on a select few with no failures but 10% still seem to break in application. Has been frustrating to say the least.
RE: 440C Stainless fastener problem
Is it just something about a fastener that makes 440C a poor choice? I only ask because we have made dowel pins from it with good results and also other parts out of plate in the 58-60HRC range with good results also. And it also seems to be used a lot in cutlery. Is it just the geometry of the fastener or the type of stress it is under as a fastener?
RE: 440C Stainless fastener problem
RE: 440C Stainless fastener problem
RE: 440C Stainless fastener problem
Do not thread right up to the head, leave a little smooth undercut.
check for machining marks, they may be where the cracks are starting.
add a cryo step, use a higher temper temperature, and maybe double temper.
With an air quench you may not be getting good transformation.
Corrosion resistance? 416 is junk because of the inclusions, but 440C is no better than 410.
None of these grades have much corrosion resistance.
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Plymouth Tube
RE: 440C Stainless fastener problem
RE: 440C Stainless fastener problem
The marks could be trapping impurities also making it worse.
If you decide to try the surface treatment route use 410, not 416.
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Plymouth Tube
RE: 440C Stainless fastener problem
Yes, we get a colored heat tint. We didn't passivate it only ran them through a vibe to even out the color.
EdStainless,
Yes, we are looking at better grades now. (416 is just so easy to machine)
TVP, Thanks I will look into that, as I like the machining rates of 416.
EdStainless, Is 410 really a big difference? 416 is so much easier to get in round bar. And yes we definitely have some machining marks in there, but not a really cost effective way to eliminate it.
Thanks ALL, You guys are a MAJOR help.
And this may deserve a whole new thread but is there a really good way to passivate 416 that is safe on environment and employees/mishaps?
RE: 440C Stainless fastener problem
I would want to put the max possible radius on any corners (including the bottom of the slot) and be sure that there are no machining marks on the parts.
RE: 440C Stainless fastener problem
The S in 416 that makes it machine easily creates many locations that corrode easily as well.
Passivation: First you have to eliminate the heat tint. Either heat treat in protective atmosphere or pickle are the only options.
You can then passivate, check ASTM A380 and A967 for guidance on solutions. In general either nitric acid or citric/ammonium citrate solutions.
If you pickle any of them are fine. If you don't pickle then nitric may be only workable option to get real passivation.
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Plymouth Tube
RE: 440C Stainless fastener problem
RE: 440C Stainless fastener problem
I'm also curious what is it about this case that wouldn't permit an undercut/thread relief. With the countersink on the female side it looks like there's probably one full thread that is not threaded anyhow.
RE: 440C Stainless fastener problem
Excuse my ignorance but what is ESCC and SCC?
EdStainless,
Thanks for the info!
Rconner,
Carbon fiber [ am curious why that matters?]
BiPolarMonent,
Yes it's intended to be a bushing that captures something and no, only 416 & 440C so far. And at this exact moment while we work on a permanent fix is exactly what we are doing, using 416 for the male side. We have the room for an undercut, would it help that much and eliminate the issue in your opinion?
RE: 440C Stainless fastener problem
http://www.eng-tips.com/threadminder.cfm?pid=1529
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RE: 440C Stainless fastener problem
Attached is some material property data for PH13-8Mo, Custom 465 and 440C. Custom 465 cond. H950 will get you the strength you are looking for, and PH13-8Mo cond. H950 will come close. Custom 465 and PH13-8Mo both have far better SCC resistance than 440C at the strength level you are considering. You will also note that Custom 465 and PH13-8Mo have far greater elongation rates than 440C at >Rc45 hardness (10% vs 2%), which can be beneficial for a threaded fastener application.
Hope that helps.
Terry
RE: 440C Stainless fastener problem
Thank you
tbuelna,
Thanks that helps...... It does really look like PH13-8Mo is a very good alternative to what I am looking for. I will do some samples in that and test them.
RE: 440C Stainless fastener problem
You should really try to stay with aging temp of 1025 or higher (1025, 1050, or 1075) for best toughness and decent SCC resistance.
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Plymouth Tube
RE: 440C Stainless fastener problem
EdStainless makes a good point about SCC resistance of 13-8 or Custom 465 and aging below cond H1025. You did not state what the end use was for these fasteners, but for aerospace structural applications SCC is a huge concern. Generally, 13-8 or Custom 465 would not be used age hardened to cond. H950 due to the aircraft industry's very conservative position on SCC. However, for your particular application you might prefer to sacrifice some SCC resistance for higher strength.
Attached is some reference material on SCC considerations of 13-8 and Custom 465.
Lastly, there is one other corrosion resistant fastener material that has good SCC resistance and very high strength (>250 ksi UTS), MP35N multiphase alloy. Unfortunately it is also very expensive.
Best regards,
Terry
RE: 440C Stainless fastener problem
Thanks, you have been a wealth of info and it is greatly appreciated!
And this is actually for the cutlery industry believe it or not, so strength and corrosion are the big factors for my customer.
Again, Thanks all :)
RE: 440C Stainless fastener problem
For a fastener on a knife handle, why wouldn't you simply increase the thread diameter of the fastener and use a lower strength material? I can understand the need for corrosion resistance in the fastener, but the desire for extremely high strength seems a bit excessive.
There are carbon stainless alloys like 420HC that are excellent for knife blades. But 440C stainless is not a good choice for threaded fasteners.
Best regards,
Terry
RE: 440C Stainless fastener problem
And there biggest reason for the change was actually the HRC. They had a lot of buggered screws in assembly and wanted something in the low 50's.
Thanks,
RE: 440C Stainless fastener problem
RE: 440C Stainless fastener problem
This is what we are now leaning towards...... The reason we didn't really want to do that is from a maintenance stand point...... but give and take I guess.