Pipeline underground or aboveground
Pipeline underground or aboveground
(OP)
Hello, a steel insulated pipeline will operate with a liquid stream to be maintained at aprox 140°C and ambient temperature is aprox 15°C minimum, is there a rule of thumb that determines whether this pipeline cannot be buried/under-ground, and that it has to be above ground? I am thinking that there would be problems with mechanical stress from expanding/contracting, so it needs to be above-ground? Thanks in advance.





RE: Pipeline underground or aboveground
You like many, many others ask questions and do not give us important details in order to base our answers.
What country is this project in?
How long in this pipeline?
Is the ground subject to permafrost?
If permafrost is present, what is the depth?
Is the route of this pipeline outside the plant on public land?
I am not a salesman, I am just a retired piper with some experience.
If you decide to bury the line I recommend you investigate this product: Gilsulate
(http://www.gilsulate.com/). I have worked on projects where this was used, it provides the insulation, corrosion protection and is flexible enough to allow for expansion and contraction and it is easy to install.
prognosis: Lead or Lag
RE: Pipeline underground or aboveground
RE: Pipeline underground or aboveground
http://www.qualityfoam.com/docs/ethafoam-220.pdf
RE: Pipeline underground or aboveground
I hate Windows 8!!!!
RE: Pipeline underground or aboveground
Anyway, Ethafoam is a product that may help in some situations to help deal with pipeline expansions, not all of them.
RE: Pipeline underground or aboveground
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
"Belief" is the acceptance of an hypotheses in the absence of data.
"Prejudice" is having an opinion not supported by the preponderance of the data.
"Knowledge" is only found through the accumulation and analysis of data.
The plural of anecdote is not "data"
RE: Pipeline underground or aboveground
RE: Pipeline underground or aboveground
Is there a rule of thumb?, not really, but above about 80 to 90 C you do start to run into issues such as upheaval buckling and stress at bends / expansion. However that doesn't mean that you can't bury it. There are many lines in Canada which have similar temperature issues. Often the solution is to pre stress the life by heating it prior to burial.
I also recently saw a pipe in pipe system which included trace heating where they turned the heating on, the inner pipe grew several cms and was then welded to the outer pipe to avoid that issue.
Running above ground has issues, mostly about access across the pipe line and damage, but also undulating ground, crossings etc. If you have none of these issues then ag might work.
What are planning to use for insulation and to maintain the temperature?
My motto: Learn something new every day
Also: There's usually a good reason why everyone does it that way
RE: Pipeline underground or aboveground
Thanks for the input, we have not decided on anything yet, just looking at feasibility.
Regards,
RE: Pipeline underground or aboveground
Most of our hot steam / bitumen / dilbit lines in support of SAGD facilities up here (Alberta) are above ground. The aforementioned calculations in combination with unfavorable geotechnical properties make the burial of such hot lines somewhat difficult.
RE: Pipeline underground or aboveground
RE: Pipeline underground or aboveground
I collect those odd empirical equations, and that is the first one I've come across that works in SI instead of fps. I start my 5-day class with a discussion of one that works in fps, and for my next class (in Brisbane) I'm going to replace it with yours--it will make the same point without the students focusing on "what the heck is a bbl?".
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
Law is the common force organized to act as an obstacle of injustice Frédéric Bastiat
RE: Pipeline underground or aboveground
RE: Pipeline underground or aboveground
My motto: Learn something new every day
Also: There's usually a good reason why everyone does it that way
RE: Pipeline underground or aboveground
You know, actually I have some suspicions about you.
You're a new member.
You ask a pretty lame question.
All of a sudden your pet product pops up. I won't repeat its name.
Guess who popped that product's name up. You!
Why mention the product by name, brand name?
Because it is an equally lame answer to your lame question.
I'd thought I'd through a spanner in your works and mention some poor characteristic your product has that would make it unsuitable for this app.
Rather than say "Thank you, I hadn't thought about that.", you get upset.
You have no other viable solution, so you're not an engineer, or a very good one, because you should have checked it for temperature compatibility, or a good one that's only interested in advertising.
You are surely not interested in our well being, since you didn't do a proper evaluation of the product before you proposed it as a bad solution and typed it up in our forum.
I'm red flagging you and this thread and we'll let site management sort it out. You can explain why it's not advertising and tell them your reason that you started this thread.
I'm betting you'll be erased by the end of the day.
I hate Windows 8!!!!
RE: Pipeline underground or aboveground
I hate Windows 8!!!!
RE: Pipeline underground or aboveground
In other words, this kind of design problem requires analysis of everything in the big picture and how it all interacts together - mechanical and geotechnical - before you start looking for cures in the form of a padding product.
RE: Pipeline underground or aboveground
Otherwise it will be trouble for corrosion protection system and buckle stress. What standard is used ? For B31.8 gas pipeline, stress over yield is still allowed by maximum strain 2.5 %. Consult the CP protection specialist how to design ICCP/SACP at elevated temperature
RE: Pipeline underground or aboveground
I hate Windows 8!!!!
RE: Pipeline underground or aboveground
I am a chemical engineer, not a mechanical engineer, doing some research, not any type or phase of design. In my projects we have installed Ethafoam successfully to manage expansion of pipelines with changes in temperature, this designed by certified stress engineers. Ethafoam is just another foam, it doesn't matter, what matters is the principle. Leaving some space in the Z bends for movement. I have nothing to do with selling Ethafoam or Dow. IN fact, before me, someone brought up another product http://www.gilsulate.com/ which is why I thought of the foam.
My question is very simple, and relevant judging by the number of responses we have to date.
I suggest you hold your judgement before knowing.
RE: Pipeline underground or aboveground
www.logstor.com
RE: Pipeline underground or aboveground
My motto: Learn something new every day
Also: There's usually a good reason why everyone does it that way
RE: Pipeline underground or aboveground
Surely until somebody asks for one.
I hate Windows 8!!!!
RE: Pipeline underground or aboveground
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RE: Pipeline underground or aboveground
My motto: Learn something new every day
Also: There's usually a good reason why everyone does it that way