Who is responsible fro the architects design?
Who is responsible fro the architects design?
(OP)
I do fill in work from time to time helping steel fabricators with the design of their stairs. I was recently asked to look at a project with a high profile engineer and architect. The projects consists of what I think is an addition to an existing building. The architect has a very specific set of requirements as to what the stringers, railings and guards are to be. The architect is so specific that they call out the size of every little member to be used. Being an addition, I think they are trying to match materials used within the existing building.
Now my client bid and won the project and is being asked by the engineer to provide a set of calculations for the misc iron package. That would be fine, however, some of what the architect is asking for doesn't work structurally. Seems like the architect and engineer didn't really think this paradox through. If they required engineering then they are open to their sizes being changed...... but they require the sizes they show.
Usually, with my help, they can fight these projects off but I don't think they are going to be successful here.
I know asking for a set of engineering calculations is standard for misc iron, but is it standard to require those calculations when the architect is this specific?
Now my client bid and won the project and is being asked by the engineer to provide a set of calculations for the misc iron package. That would be fine, however, some of what the architect is asking for doesn't work structurally. Seems like the architect and engineer didn't really think this paradox through. If they required engineering then they are open to their sizes being changed...... but they require the sizes they show.
Usually, with my help, they can fight these projects off but I don't think they are going to be successful here.
I know asking for a set of engineering calculations is standard for misc iron, but is it standard to require those calculations when the architect is this specific?






RE: Who is responsible fro the architects design?
HE will have to bend a little, or the stairs will bend a lot. His choice.
Most Architects I have worked with are more reasonable, providing some latitude. Tell him to do the calculations and stamp it. See how far he gets.
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
RE: Who is responsible fro the architects design?
RE: Who is responsible fro the architects design?
This same thing has happened to me, where the architect calls everything out, but they still want the fabricator's engineer to provide calculations, and then the members don't work. Every time, when this is brought to the architect's attention, they defer to us and the member sizes are increased. It doesn't make any logical sense, but that seems to be the way our industry operates.
RE: Who is responsible fro the architects design?
I've talked this over with my client. We are going to run the calculations as they currently shown and when something doesn't work, we are going to change the sizes as necessary to get a system to work. They will then fight it out with the architect.
RE: Who is responsible fro the architects design?
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
RE: Who is responsible fro the architects design?
RE: Who is responsible fro the architects design?
If your stamp is anywhere on the drawing, and there is a problem, you're named on the law suit.
RE: Who is responsible fro the architects design?
RE: Who is responsible fro the architects design?
The lightest steel I design would be girts and purlins. I don't do studs and in fact exclude their design in my proposals. There is a bit of a difference though, the architect is calling out what he wants to use because it either matches what is in the existing building or he "likes the look" of what he showed. What I don't get is, either call out some generic sizes (steel plate, steel rail, steel stringer etc) and let the engineer decide what to use, or call out the sizes and don't require a third party engineer.
As mentioned above, this has opened the owner up to a back charge from the fabricator. Usually this would be squashed by the GC but I'm sure there will be some sort of compensation which will end up coming from the owner.
RE: Who is responsible fro the architects design?
RE: Who is responsible fro the architects design?
RE: Who is responsible fro the architects design?
RE: Who is responsible fro the architects design?
Our typical projects are bid with performance specified stairs, which is an architecturally authored specification. If the architect attempts to dictate sizes on their drawings, then I wouldn't attempt to review those sizes, knowing that it would be engineered per the engineered stair specifications. If it's in our contract to consult on the engineered stairs then that's another story.
I would expect the architect would have to be flexible if something couldn't be engineered to work as they'd shown. Just like during the design phase of the project.
RE: Who is responsible fro the architects design?
These notes are definitely not foolproof. If the real, final design has to veer way off the intent you still may have a contractual disagreement, but at least the bidders know as much as possible what they are getting in to up front.
Similar, or sometimes worse, problems can arise when the physical space alotted is not adequate for the stair.
RE: Who is responsible fro the architects design?