Garage found in Poor/Unsage Condition
Garage found in Poor/Unsage Condition
(OP)
Upon a recent site visit to a potential clients residence, I found an unpermitted garage in very poor, unsafe, poorly constructed, not meeting any structural code (past or present)requirements, clearly in need of demolition, not rehabilitation. He wanted to install a new single car garage door. He suggested and independent garage door support frame, I suggested he accept a proposal from me for a new garage structure design. Whether or not I hear back from this fellow, I can't help but think this structure will fail in the next minute or two, maybe it has just now due to merely my thinking about it. While this a maybe more of an ethical question than structural, am I obligated to report such a dilapidated structure to the local building official? This possibly a question to present to the building official, or my respective state board. If the owner never sells his property or structure, this building will probably go unnoticed or found in violation. I would assume the risk remains with the owner and his wife and small children. I would imagine I'd eventually acquire a reputation of reporting potential clients to the local building official - not exactly a great marketing strategy! Is merely informing the client as to his garage structure's unsafe condition sufficient, maybe even in writing? Or should I drop a dime on him to the nearest inspector? What would you do?






RE: Garage found in Poor/Unsage Condition
I would write a letter to the local jurisdiction and suggest they send an inspector to the site to investigate it, stating your case. If you do not want your name on the record, you could also make an anonymous call to the building department too. Either way, you have done your due diligence in my opinion.
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
RE: Garage found in Poor/Unsage Condition
RE: Garage found in Poor/Unsage Condition
RE: Garage found in Poor/Unsage Condition
RE: Garage found in Poor/Unsage Condition
RE: Garage found in Poor/Unsage Condition
Otherwise, as others have noted, you have told the owner (in writing) that there are problems. It is up to the owner now to act, if at all, and take the risk if they so choose.
You're the engineer, not the enforcement. That's up to the local jurisdiction as others have noted.
RE: Garage found in Poor/Unsage Condition
RE: Garage found in Poor/Unsage Condition
What action should a design professional take if the design professional becomes aware of a decision taken by
the design professional’s employer or client, against the design professional’s advice, which violates applicable
State or municipal laws and regulations and which will, in the design professional’s judgment, materially and
adversely affect the safety of the public?
The design professional shall report the decision to the local inspector or public official charged with the
enforcement of the applicable State or municipal laws and regulations, and refuse to consent to the decision,
and withdraw the professional’s services with respect to the project.
If the decision was made by unlicensed or unqualified individuals, the design professional should file a
complaint with the Department of Financial and Professional Regulation.
RE: Garage found in Poor/Unsage Condition
I would walk away from this - heck I'd run, as I would question whether he had the money to pay for my services, or would, let alone do what I designed - just a gut call.
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
RE: Garage found in Poor/Unsage Condition
If it was me I would probably be compelled to tell the building authority however I would talk to the homeowner first to tell him I was going. If the garage is in that bad of shape I would hope he would understand (even though he will be super upset). Who knows, the authority might not follow up on something like a residential garage.
RE: Garage found in Poor/Unsage Condition
1) Sometimes we throw around words like "unsafe" a little too easily. But, in legal circles you want to avoid language like that unless you can really back it up with engineering calculations. If you haven't performed a detailed investigation of the structure then you shouldn't use that word. "potentially unsafe" or "appears to be unsafe" would be better if you have any doubts about being able to back up your claim in a court of law. If the structure has been standing for a number of years then would a jury of lay people agree with your assessment of "unsafe" or "imminent collapse" if you got caught up in a lawsuit?
2) Describe the structure in more objective terms like you would in an engineering report. Structure is out of plumb by x number of inches. When pushed on by a man with average strength (less than 100 lbs of lateral force), a sway of y number of inches was observed. Main supporting beam exhibited dry rot / decay that extended z percentage of beam width.
3) You want to be careful with the wording of any letter you send to your client. Just the fact that he brought you out to his site means that he is a client and that he has entered into some verbal contract with you for services rendered. If your letter worded poorly it can come off as extortion. "I have recommended that you hire me to design a replacement structure. If you do not, then I will report you to the authorities."
You wouldn't word the letter like that, obviously. But, if the engineering board sees it then you want it to be perfectly clear on its own. State your opinion about the structure. Suggest that he may not want to allow any occupancy to the structure until the issues are resolved. Suggest that he get a second opinion from another engineer or building inspector if he questions your assessment.
RE: Garage found in Poor/Unsage Condition
RE: Garage found in Poor/Unsage Condition
1) There is nothing wrong, or for that matter, seriously risky, to write a letter saying that in your engineering opinion a building appears to be unsafe and some efforts should be made to ensure that under its current condition it is safe. Obviously one should NOT extort the client or suggest that they hire you. But I would (and have) suggested that another independent engineer be engaged to verify its safety.
2) Describing X inches of deflection, or a percent of dry rot, does not meet an engineer's mandate to protect the public if indeed, in your opinion, you see a structure as unsafe. To a layman a percent of dry rot is meaningless.
3) I think your points tend to suggest that the engineer has something to lose if they raise a red flag about a structure. I would suggest the opposite. The engineer has plenty more to lose if they see such a decrepit structure and DON'T respond and someone gets hurt. Then you are really in deep doo doo. The engineer should safeguard the public welfare and safety, even if it risks the engineers reputation, clients, etc.
Now having said the above, I do agree that you should make more than just a brief overview of a structure before raising the issue. A thorough review of the structure, perhaps some independent (non-paid for) calculations), identifying or listing various obvious problems would be helpful.