Copyright of plans
Copyright of plans
(OP)
This must have been covered in a prior post, but I can't find it so here it goes:
I am a civil engineer and I prepare a site plan with proposed improvements, such as a driveway and grading details, all on private property. This is submitted to a permitting agency. Can this be copied by the public agency and given to others? If I have a falling out with the client prior to issuing the grading permit, due to delays from the public agency, can my work be used by others, without my permission, to continue with the permitting process or by them to make some changes and resubmit the work plan? I content that my work is complete and meets the agency requirements but the customer refuses to pay for work beyond the initial contract, that the public agency is asking for, but not required by code. There are other issues going on that caused this to "snowball" into a mess but I don't want my plan used by other without the understanding by all that the already submitted plan is okay and the owner does not have recourse claiming my plan is not complete. There is a lot going on in my questions but I am basically asking for advice on the copyright aspect of the plans.
I am a civil engineer and I prepare a site plan with proposed improvements, such as a driveway and grading details, all on private property. This is submitted to a permitting agency. Can this be copied by the public agency and given to others? If I have a falling out with the client prior to issuing the grading permit, due to delays from the public agency, can my work be used by others, without my permission, to continue with the permitting process or by them to make some changes and resubmit the work plan? I content that my work is complete and meets the agency requirements but the customer refuses to pay for work beyond the initial contract, that the public agency is asking for, but not required by code. There are other issues going on that caused this to "snowball" into a mess but I don't want my plan used by other without the understanding by all that the already submitted plan is okay and the owner does not have recourse claiming my plan is not complete. There is a lot going on in my questions but I am basically asking for advice on the copyright aspect of the plans.





RE: Copyright of plans
IMHO (I am NOT a lawyer) the legal fees would be excessive. Here is a recent summary of copyright protection as it applies to engineers:
http://www.cgspllc.com/pdf/Jeremiah-PENC-Copyright...
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RE: Copyright of plans
B+W Engineering and Design
Los Angeles Civil Engineer and Structural Engineer
http://bwengr.com | http://bwstructuralengineer.com | http://bwcivilengineer.com
RE: Copyright of plans
Who has rights to copies of the following? To do derivitive work or alter the following? To make their own copies of the following?
1. The final paper plans.
2. The electronic files related to the plans.
3. Reports related to the work.
4. Calculations, worksheets, survey data, notes related to the work.
Especially in the case of a "falling out", items beyond the final plans often come into play.
RE: Copyright of plans
Dik
RE: Copyright of plans
RE: Copyright of plans
1. Copying - Many places (e.g., States, local agencies) have gone to keeping electronic copies of documents instead of keeping paper copies of everything for record retention that is required by law. They have the electronic files available to the public, and some places have it accessible via the internet (e.g., Indiana's Department of Environmental Management has their online at http://108.59.49.89/Pages/Public/Search.aspx ). In general, once something is submitted to a public agency, the public legally has a right to look at it (Unless it's submitted as Confidential information).
2. The question if another engineer can use your original drawings to complete a project, without your consent gets trickier. Part of it depends on your originally contract, part of it depends on the law, and it also depends on how the original drawings are used. For example, let's say the "problem" the State had with your drawings were only with some detail drawings. The general layout is fine, but some specific details need to be changed. The new engineer providing new detail drawings to your exisiting drawings may not necessarily make them invalid or be against the law.
3. When it comes to fees, it depends on how your contract is written. If your contract was written that you'd provide all drawings necessary in order to get the permit for Project X at a fee of $Y, then your client is within their rights to expect you to make the revisions without any additional fees. Also, it depends on what your client owns. Do they get X copies of the drawings; electronic copies (non-editable and/or editable ones); reports; and/or calaculations?
While I understand you're frustrated, you need to look at the BIG PICTURE whenever things are going South on a project:
1. How much is it going to cost you to finish the project?
2. How much is it going to cost you if you don't finish the project. Consider cost of loosing this client and potentially others due to potential harm to your reputation.
RE: Copyright of plans
1. The public agency may require someone to sign a disclosure but they cannot withhold this information from the general public.
2. The ownership of all documents and files you create for this project should be clarified in your contract with the client. If this is not mentioned in your contract you probably have very little recourse if the clint wants to give them to someone else, whether or not he's paid in full.
RE: Copyright of plans
B+W Engineering and Design
Los Angeles Civil Engineer and Structural Engineer
http://bwengr.com | http://bwstructuralengineer.com | http://bwcivilengineer.com
RE: Copyright of plans
Make sure your document ownership clause in your contract is tight. If for any reason you give up ownership (as required by some public agencies), then you need to make clear the terms of re-use and that such re-use cannot occur without your written permission and remuneration. Design documents are "instruments of service" not just pieces of paper or electronic files.
Further, many states require that drawings be submitted in non-changeable form, including electronic files. State in your contract that any change not done by you invalidates your drawings and your liability.
RE: Copyright of plans
RE: Copyright of plans
"THE DRAWINGS AND DATA IN THIS DOCUMENT, AND THE INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY AND CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION IT CONTAINS ARE THE PROPERTY OF _________________. ANY PARTY ACCEPTING THIS DOCUMENT DOES SO IN CONFIDENCE AND AGREES THAT IT SHALL NOT BE DUPLICATED, IN WHOLE OR IN PART, NOR DISCLOSE TO OTHERS WITHOUT THE WRITTEN CONSENT OF ________________"
RE: Copyright of plans
RE: Copyright of plans
Until the product is paid for, it remains the property of the engineer. Once the client has paid for the work that has been done, in my opinion, the work product becomes the clients and he can do whatever he wants with it. If he wants to have some other engineer modify the design, that is his right, but the original engineer no longer has any liability for anything that is changed.
I've been on both sides of this fence.
RE: Copyright of plans
One of the biggest problems that consistently occurs is when an Owner withholds funds when work is not done to his satisfaction. Often with construction contracts the work has to be formally 'rejected' first and for reasons... Owners are not overly receptive to my asking them to confirm with their legal advisor, thinking that it's a 'Right' they have, being the Owner to withhold money.
In many jurisdictions, the engineer (aka professional) automatically retains the copyright of the documents, the ownership may lie elsewhere. The copyright may be transferred as part of an agreement. This may not be true in all places, but it is my experience that this is often the case.
Dik