CAN RUNOUT BE USED ON A INTERRUPTED DIAMETER
CAN RUNOUT BE USED ON A INTERRUPTED DIAMETER
(OP)
See attached. I guess the answer is NO. Just want to confirm.
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CAN RUNOUT BE USED ON A INTERRUPTED DIAMETER
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RE: CAN RUNOUT BE USED ON A INTERRUPTED DIAMETER
RE: CAN RUNOUT BE USED ON A INTERRUPTED DIAMETER
Frank
RE: CAN RUNOUT BE USED ON A INTERRUPTED DIAMETER
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The Help for this program was created in Windows Help format, which depends on a feature that isn't included in this version of Windows.
RE: CAN RUNOUT BE USED ON A INTERRUPTED DIAMETER
Same opinion here: there is nothing wrong about specifying/checking runout on shaft with keyway.
Also, if you are interested, there was discussion on this topic here: www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=314178
And here: www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=350055
RE: CAN RUNOUT BE USED ON A INTERRUPTED DIAMETER
Frank
RE: CAN RUNOUT BE USED ON A INTERRUPTED DIAMETER
RE: CAN RUNOUT BE USED ON A INTERRUPTED DIAMETER
May I know which book/article does this picture come from?
RE: CAN RUNOUT BE USED ON A INTERRUPTED DIAMETER
That takes me back to my old machine tool days!
Frank
RE: CAN RUNOUT BE USED ON A INTERRUPTED DIAMETER
Goes very much in-line with this discussion, isn’t it: thread1103-271641: Runout relative to a planar datum ?
RE: CAN RUNOUT BE USED ON A INTERRUPTED DIAMETER
John Acosta, GDTP S-0731
Engineering Technician
Inventor 2013
Mastercam X6
Smartcam 11.1
SSG, U.S. Army
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RE: CAN RUNOUT BE USED ON A INTERRUPTED DIAMETER
Frank
RE: CAN RUNOUT BE USED ON A INTERRUPTED DIAMETER
As for the picture from G. Henzold's book... well, by definition (ISO or ASME) any kind of runout must involve datum axis. I think that speaks for itself.
RE: CAN RUNOUT BE USED ON A INTERRUPTED DIAMETER
The fact that neither ASME or ISO is capable to satisfy the need speaks for yourself as well...
9
RE: CAN RUNOUT BE USED ON A INTERRUPTED DIAMETER
So could you please explain the functional requirement to me?
RE: CAN RUNOUT BE USED ON A INTERRUPTED DIAMETER
RE: CAN RUNOUT BE USED ON A INTERRUPTED DIAMETER
Frank
RE: CAN RUNOUT BE USED ON A INTERRUPTED DIAMETER
And I don’t see any problem.
It could be simpler if datum A was just one flat side of the “thickness”.
Yes, and don’t forget both A and B should be referenced RFS.
RE: CAN RUNOUT BE USED ON A INTERRUPTED DIAMETER
Frank
RE: CAN RUNOUT BE USED ON A INTERRUPTED DIAMETER
----------------------------------------
The Help for this program was created in Windows Help format, which depends on a feature that isn't included in this version of Windows.
RE: CAN RUNOUT BE USED ON A INTERRUPTED DIAMETER
Your concern is reasonable, however I would say this problem may happen even when actual runout error of simple regular cylinder is inspected. Picture a shaft comprised of two cylinders - one is datum feature, second is toleranced relative to the first with total runout. In most cases there will be a fillet between the two cylinders. So during the inspection there will be also a possibility that dial indicator will go beyond toleranced cylindrical surface, touch the fillet and in consequence the reading will be distorted.
Bxbzq's part does not have to be inspected by continuous rotation 360 degrees around datum axis. This can be done slice after slice. The key thing is just to make sure that the readings are not zeroed between the slices.
Frank,
If the functional requirement on G. Henzold's picture is to keep the shaft parallel to datum plane A, why not to apply parallelism tolerance?
If the functional requirement is to keep the shaft parallel to datum plane A and located from datum plane A, why not to apply position tolerance (with possible refinement of parallelism, if needed)?
Why would somebody want to check circular runout in this case?
RE: CAN RUNOUT BE USED ON A INTERRUPTED DIAMETER
A runout tolerance on that shaft would control the entire form (cylindricity), as well as orientation (parallelism), and location (although only height location, not coaxial location as intended by runout). No other control can do just those three things (not even profile).
John-Paul Belanger
Certified Sr. GD&T Professional
Geometric Learning Systems
RE: CAN RUNOUT BE USED ON A INTERRUPTED DIAMETER
Of course neither location nor parallelism would be able to detect circularity errors. But do you really think that assembly level drawing is the proper place to check circularity error of the shaft? In my opinion this is one of the characteristics, apart from shaft size tolerance, that can be easily provided by engine manufacturer without necessity of simulating working conditions of the engine. Besides, even if there was a need to check the circularity, why not to apply direct circularity callout in addition to position and/or parallelism callouts. Why to make up callouts that are not supported by any standard and actually (in my opinion) does not reflect functional requirements?
RE: CAN RUNOUT BE USED ON A INTERRUPTED DIAMETER
Granted, the current standard doesn't really allow for this use of runout, but that's why we're discussing it; to see if there is even any legitimacy to trying for such a use.
John-Paul Belanger
Certified Sr. GD&T Professional
Geometric Learning Systems
RE: CAN RUNOUT BE USED ON A INTERRUPTED DIAMETER
Please do not get me wrong. I am all for novelties and extension of principles, but only if there is really no other way to express something. Per my understanding we do not have such a situation here.
RE: CAN RUNOUT BE USED ON A INTERRUPTED DIAMETER
But I know what you're saying -- and at this point it's really just an academic discussion :)
John-Paul Belanger
Certified Sr. GD&T Professional
Geometric Learning Systems