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off topic question about why i am forced to change my way of engineering

off topic question about why i am forced to change my way of engineering

off topic question about why i am forced to change my way of engineering

(OP)
hello sorry about the topic i posted here but i was unsure of where to post this so here goes - all of our engineering dept uses solidworks to create their designs -
i like to layout my parts & assembly in autocad then import my sketches to solidworks thus creating my parts & model - i am getting alot of flack from the others
about the way i work - i am not holding up any projects nor have i been late on a release date - on the other hand i have been early most of the time -
my work is always complete & my designs seem to be well thought out & almost error free - others are complaining that i am just not with the program &
i must abandon my way of doing things & get on board w/ the rest of the class - i thought that the end result was what was important not how we get there -
the engineering takes 1st priority not what cad system you use & the product must be right - maybe i am wrong - would like to here others views on this if you please -
also some i work w/ are "tellling on me to the teacher (read my boss)" about why i work this way & it is starting to impact my work & my morale -
if i am wrong i will "get on board" & be a team player even though i really do not like the team all that much - thank you

RE: off topic question about why i am forced to change my way of engineering

There are a number of possibilities:

> they are just a bunch of sheep that don't like deviants
> your drawings are just not consistent with SW, and they think that's bad
> your drawings are just not consistent with SW, and they're difficult to maintain by someone other than yourself

TTFN
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers

RE: off topic question about why i am forced to change my way of engineering

Is there a specific reason why you refuse to just work in SW?
Is your method of working future proof? What if your company decides to stop supporting autocad because you're the only one using it?

NX 7.5.5.4 with Teamcenter 8 on win7 64
Intel Xeon @3.2GHz
8GB RAM
Nvidia Quadro 2000

RE: off topic question about why i am forced to change my way of engineering

One of my Engineers has resisted every change in software we've ever made. He's a fine Engineer and a nice guy, just doesn't like change. I just force him to do it whether he likes it or not. We require consistency and we're not going to support multiple systems. Might sound draconian, but sometimes your employer gets to set the conditions.

RE: off topic question about why i am forced to change my way of engineering

duk748, anybody slightly honest will admit 2D drawing in SW sucks, as compared to ACAD. My product line is, in a limited and disorganized fashion, transitioning to SW for some of our products. Each of us uses a different technique. If your SW models are generally adequate, who cares how you got there.

My own view is that resorting back to ACAD is kind of a crutch and I try to avoid it. At the same time drawing in SW drives me crazy. SW drawings drive me crazy. The kicker is that, after the job is modelled and SW drawings made, we have to produce an ACAD drawing to turn over to the machine shop. Don't ask.

But in the end, if your use of ACAD is causing you uneeded heartburn, well...

Regards,

Mike

RE: off topic question about why i am forced to change my way of engineering

How much of the 'intelligence', if any, is left in AutoCad when you port it into Solid Works such that if you or someone else has to make changes it's more time consuming?

When you port into Solid works are you making sure everything is fully constrained using functional dimensions/relationships etc. or do you end up with fairly dumb sketches as the foundation for your parts?

Having got caught up in multi CAD debacles where certain people insisted on doing their own thing and then seeing this cause problems later, (& without being expert on either software you mention so not perhaps grasping some intricacies) I'd be wondering too why you don't just work in Solid Works rather than having the extra step.

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: off topic question about why i am forced to change my way of engineering

While SW sketching may not be as intuitive as ACad, it does provide a parametric connection between the 2D and 3D model. If you are still fully constraining the ACad imported geometry, theer should be no issues as someone else picking up your design won't see anything wrong. If you are importing a bunch of connected lines and arcs, then they have reason to complain.

Are you willing to take a few hours and learn how to use the SW sketching 2D tools effectively?

"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."

Ben Loosli

RE: off topic question about why i am forced to change my way of engineering

I suspect the problem is (as others have commented) that by using imported geometry your sketches are not parametric. Thus you have no dimensioning scheme & no easy way to modify your design. Solid modeling has to be constructed properly to get all the benefits.

I sometimes import 2D DXF into Pro/E when I want to migrate some legacy design. I will create a new sketch for my solid features referencing the imported geometry. Then I delete all the references and give the new sketch a proper dimensioning scheme and proper references to datum planes, etc. So now I have native Pro/E geometry that exactly matches the imported geometry. I can hide and unhide the imported geometry at any time to verify that any changes are intentional. I can even delete the imported geometry and my model does not fall apart. I can use all my section dimensions to drive relations, drawings, etc. the way a solid model should.

----------------------------------------

The Help for this program was created in Windows Help format, which depends on a feature that isn't included in this version of Windows.

RE: off topic question about why i am forced to change my way of engineering

If perpetually demonstrating a failure or unwillingness to adapt works for you, then, by all means, keep on it. There's no point in becoming adept at new things. Old things are better. They just are. Old things good; new things bad.

RE: off topic question about why i am forced to change my way of engineering

duk748,

My experience of AutoCAD and SolidWorks was that the transition was far more involved than it was to go from a drafting board to AutoCAD. SolidWorks is a design tool. AutoCAD is a drafting too.

I do not see what you can do in AutoCAD that you cannot do in SolidWorks. Maybe the stuff you design is easy to describe in 2D.

--
JHG

RE: off topic question about why i am forced to change my way of engineering

(OP)
hello again & thank you for the replies - i always make sure that my sketches are constrained & that the models i create are parametric so the detailing is quick & accurate - i am just faster at creating block parts in acad - i like to
work on several parts together at one time along w/ the complete machine in the backround as an outline only -
our "stuff" is really very simple weldments & machined blocks - nothing very fancy or complex at all - new is not bad it is just a comfort level - thank you again

RE: off topic question about why i am forced to change my way of engineering

Propose a simple "challenge"....
You do it your way, and let the other guy do it his way.. See who's better/quicker,etc...





RE: off topic question about why i am forced to change my way of engineering

Not so much on topic, but in a recent interview the cad/IT manager (it's a small company) gave me a solidworks test. I got to choose from among 4 or 5 smaller than a breadbox part drawings to create a model. Supposedly the test had been administered dozens of times previously.

I picked one interesting part, and had a go. After a few minutes I stopped to study the drawing again, and then said something like " I must be blind, because I do not see that the threaded holes in the array are dimensioned."
The CITM looked at a drawing then kind of back pedaled with " they're usually M10 blah blah blah."
I should have just made the model with threaded holes the size of manhole covers.
I didn't want to work there anyway.

RE: off topic question about why i am forced to change my way of engineering

Every time I took a CAD skills test, I included a list of corrections and omissions.

RE: off topic question about why i am forced to change my way of engineering

We actually leave a dimension or 2 out as part of the "test"..

RE: off topic question about why i am forced to change my way of engineering

In about two years I came to prefer SW to AC for modeling and design.

I still hate SW's drawing tools.

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: off topic question about why i am forced to change my way of engineering

I think this comes back to A-cad being a drafting tool, and the OP having the ability to draw a complete machine layout.
Solidworks, and the Program I use, Geomagic design, do not let you do this as easily, because they want you to draw components, then assemble them.
One of the good, and evil things about A-cad, was that you could edit a dimension on a drawing, without changing, the lines, thus losing the parametric connection. But at the same time getting a revised print to the shop faster, even though it was no longer to scale.

B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.

RE: off topic question about why i am forced to change my way of engineering

duk748, I haven't used SW in anger but is there not some way to do a 2 D layout if you so desire in say the assembly as a sketch then create parts in place/context or whatever the term is? While I don't often do it as such our 'solid' software allows this kind of thing.


"One of the good, and evil things about A-cad, was that you could edit a dimension on a drawing, without changing, the lines, thus losing the parametric connection"

Our 'solid' program allows this but does kindly underline the not to scale dimension (though there is an option to turn it off). That said, in most cases I'm not convinced this is much quicker than doing it properly.

One think about our alternate Solid Program is (at least with the required effort if you so choose) you can get a pretty nice drawing out, certainly better than I ever managed on Pro E and better than most SW drawings I've seen. (Don't mean to plug alternate software just responding to what others have said.)

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: off topic question about why i am forced to change my way of engineering

duk748

Have you ever used part templates in SW? I suggest that you invest a few hours in making your own part templates of parts that you use often in your machines, like: a shaft, a round tube, square tube, retangle bar, square bar, rectangle sheet metal plate, sheet metal ring, revolved shaft, revolved stepped shaft etc etc. Place these in a separate directory and point in tools-options-document templates to that folder.
Make sure you give all these .prtdot files the right custom properties with them already. If you now start a new machine, your sketching will be much less, since you can use your library with part templates. Just select the right part template and only modify the dimensions quickly. Maybe you now can even work directly in an assembly! Your sketching will now only be for adaptations (holes etc) to existing parts. When generating the drawings the bom can be filled quickly with the right properties that you have given to the part templates. Don't tell your SW collegues that you do it this waywinky smile I am quite sure that you finish your design now even faster that with your ACAD-convert-SW-method !

RE: off topic question about why i am forced to change my way of engineering

(OP)
hello again & i am really surprised that this topic has led to so many replies - but i am truly very thankful for all - mr. berkshire has it right in how i feel - i am old school in making an assembly layout 1st & then taking parts from the layout to make the model - we create almost every machine as a custom product - our customers very greatly & the 20+ years i have been here i cannot tell you when we have used at least 50% of an existing machine so a new or almost new layout is needed in the beginning & i can do this faster in acad then sw - i will take all this to heart & try to change the way i work - have a great holiday & thank you

RE: off topic question about why i am forced to change my way of engineering

am i right in understanding that you

1) make a bunch of 2D views in autocad, and transfer these to SW and make a solid model in SW ? 0r

2) are you just arranging your views in SW and printing on a SW drawing frame ?

if 1) ... why ?

if 2), then there is no underlying model and if someone else has to change the drawing later then they'll have a lot of work to do.
and no model to import into the next ass'y, no virtual ass'y.

do you still run windows 3 ? or wordperfect ? for me, you should get your company to pay for SW training, if you're experienced in AC then it shouldn't be that hard.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

RE: off topic question about why i am forced to change my way of engineering

Quote (KENAT)


duk748, I haven't used SW in anger but is there not some way to do a 2 D layout if you so desire in say the assembly as a sketch then create parts in place/context or whatever the term is? While I don't often do it as such our 'solid' software allows this kind of thing.
...

Yes, you can draw a 2D sketch in SolidWorks, and use it to control your 3D geometry. You can also make the sketch parametric.

Right now, I am working on an optical system, and I am using a 3D sketch to control the routing of optics. Getting light from some lasers to a scanner is proving to be horribly non-orthogonal. This would have been quite a challenge on a drafting board.

--
JHG

RE: off topic question about why i am forced to change my way of engineering

I suppose much of this is a combination of personal "inertia" and thought process.

Back when I actually designed things for a living I very much preferred working in a solid model environment - even though the tools were exceedingly primitive compared to what is available today.

For the way I think I found it much more efficient and intuitive. The design exists in my mind, then it gets directly "created" as a solid model.

Working in a 2D tool involves the intermediate step of translating the vision in my mind into orthogonal projections. For me that interrupted the creative process to figure out the mundane details of drafting.

RE: off topic question about why i am forced to change my way of engineering

I reacted negatively because I have wasted countless hours trying in vain to coach new SW users who simply could not bring themselves to learn because they could not bear to part with their precious AutoCrayon.

When I worked on a board (oh, so briefly... old enough I am), I had to practice holding and turning the pencil and making good letters. Since then, I have transitioned to AutoCAD, UG, Pro/E, and SW. Each time, new skills to learn and master, and old skills to set aside.

In failing to embrace SW, you are cheating yourself out of many valuable lessons. The more you cling to a competency of fading relevance, the less you are gaining in new and more relevant competency. Get into it, learn it, make it your b!+©# and get dangerously great with it.

Keep the old lessons, but move on to new skills. That, or see if anyone in 1990 is still hiring.

RE: off topic question about why i am forced to change my way of engineering

Hi,

Company policies are made to get structure in the organisation. But details as how a person works, is up to your boss. I think the way you work, works for you and the result is the same.
The software programms you work with are only tools. It is all about the result. If your work you deliver at the end is conform company policy, and collegaes can work with the result. What is problem. Your are most efficient this way.

Keep up the good work.
Johg

RE: off topic question about why i am forced to change my way of engineering

Yeah, the junior SW expert coached me by modeling a few of the component parts I needed, lightning- quick, some the 'old school' way, some the 'new school' way (I have no idea of the difference). He gave me a set of tutorial books he had received with his training. ... and my training was over.

The books were seriously out of date, of course, but helpful eventually. I worked through all the tutorials, which were also seriously out of date, so sometimes I got confused because I was looking for stuff that wasn't there anymore, or had been moved or just renamed.

I couldn't make use of many online tutorials, because the company blocked YouTube from their network, and just flat would not negotiate about that, or pay for any more training. The local VAR was extremely helpful, to his great credit.

Then they laid off the junior SW expert, and then the senior SW expert, and then it was just me and a new-hire drafter who was newer to SW than me. Now the drafter and I are gone, and their lone EE, who struggles with AutoCAD, is trying to keep up, with zero training and zero available time in which to be trained.





Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: off topic question about why i am forced to change my way of engineering

Idle thought, if the OP ever has to change jobs, how is the discussion going to go in the part of the interview where he says "Yes I am highly skilled at SW, but I'll need a copy of AC to do my sketches"

Resume hits round file PDQ.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: off topic question about why i am forced to change my way of engineering

"i thought that the end result was what was important not how we get there -
the engineering takes 1st priority not what cad system you use & the product must be right"

What you said would likely be what most managers would say in a speech to an engineering society. But in actual practice they value employees who are not PITA's much more than they would like to admit. In terms of job security for the typical engineer, an average one who is pleasant to deal with has the edge over the more talented and productive one who causes grief for the boss.

RE: off topic question about why i am forced to change my way of engineering

duk748-

I do a lot of mechanical systems design (gearboxes, actuators, etc) and I also prefer to start new designs by doing a 2D layout in an old version of AutoCAD 2000. Once I am happy with the 2D AutoCAD layout I then build a database of parametric solid models/assemblies using CATIA V5 and a PDM like SmarTeam. However, when I am done there is no link between the AutoCAD 2D geometry and the CATIA solid models. And once the CATIA solid models are built I rely on them exclusively for the remainder of the design, analysis and drawing work.

The reason I often start with a 2D AutoCAD layout is that most of what I design involves axisymmetric parts (bearings, gears, shafts, etc), and it is very quick and easy to do accurate 2D layouts in AutoCAD. The 2D layout also helps me to figure out how I will construct my CATIA part models and structure my CATIA products (how each part/sub-assy feeds into the next). Time spent upfront planning how to construct parametric models and assemblies is always worthwhile since it can save lots of rework headaches later on. Modern parametric CAD systems use a complex system of links and geometric relationships between individual part model features to create assemblies, and with large projects there can be dozens of engineers concurrently working from a common database. Even simple changes made to individual part model geometries, or how the constraints/relationships/links in a product model are arranged, can easily create a domino effect on numerous related models. It is surprising how much engineering time and budget is spent continually correcting issues with broken/dropped links between CAD models.

While I also catch some grief from younger coworkers over my use of 2D AutoCAD layouts, I honestly feel the time I spend on these layouts at the start of a design project is very worthwhile since it makes things go much smoother later on.

Regards,
Terry

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