Structural Drawings Question
Structural Drawings Question
(OP)
I designed some metal studs for a commercial building. The structural drawings call out a T.O.S. for the roof framing of 192'5". It did not show or indicate any slope to the steel. During my shop drawing review, it was pointed out by the project engineer for the contractor that the roof steel slopes upwards from that point. As such, my studs are under-designed for the longer span. No big deal as the material has not been purchased yet. However, they are hanging their hat on another note that was on the structural drawings that says,"Coordinate w/ Arch. and MEP drawings for dimensions, elevations, slopes, openings, sleeves, ducts, and all other requirements"
So, apparently, it is my job to figure out that the EOR screwed up with his T.O.S. designation. What a bunch of nonsense!
Isn't it standard practice to use the structural drawings for the steel elevations?
So, apparently, it is my job to figure out that the EOR screwed up with his T.O.S. designation. What a bunch of nonsense!
Isn't it standard practice to use the structural drawings for the steel elevations?






RE: Structural Drawings Question
RE: Structural Drawings Question
http://www.aisc.org/WorkArea/showcontent.aspx?id=2...
RE: Structural Drawings Question
It clearly states in Section 3.3 that when discrepencies exist between the structural and architectural drawing, then the structurals shall govern.
RE: Structural Drawings Question
This sounds like a coordination issue that should be resolved amicably and diplomatically. Of course, it often happens that somebody else has pissed off the GC before you ever got involved, so they don't have much goodwill left, and you happen to be where the frustration lands.
As for the Code of Standard Practice, it may or may not have been invoked by the contract documents. So whatever you find in there may help your case, but it may also be ultimately irrelevant.
RE: Structural Drawings Question
I thought that it would be referenced out by the IBC via the AISC 360.
RE: Structural Drawings Question
RE: Structural Drawings Question
RE: Structural Drawings Question
I've seen drawings come out of power house engineering companies with a bunch of typical details and member sizes on their drawings. No dimensions, no elevations on their drawings and note sheets that contain no design criteria (wind speed, snow load, earthquake etc). They just say "see architectural drawings for dimensions and elevations". Eliminates confusion between the two, but makes it a huge PITA to design the products they don't want to (connections, stairs, studs, siding materials). Makes you wonder why they get paid huge consulting fees (I guess they are doing something right). I try to put all this information on my drawings when I'm the EOR.
Just yesterday I got a call from the architect on a project that I was the EOR on. He was asking me what the elevation was at a location on a building he designed. He said he couldn't find it anywhere on his drawings. He didn't think it was as funny as I did.
RE: Structural Drawings Question
Yes, the Code of Standard Practice is a non-binding document, unless it is invoked by the contract documents.
AISC 360 is the Specification. Not the Manual of Steel Construction, or the Code of Standard Practice, just the Specification.
RE: Structural Drawings Question
In Section A4 of the Specification, it states: "The drawings and specifications shall meet the requirements of the Code of Standard Practice for Steel Buildings and Bridges, except for deviations specifically identified in the design drawings and/or specifications".
So this to me states that UNLESS the project documents specifically alter the relationships and practice "rules" then the Code of Std. Practice applies.
So the logic is: IBC references AISC 360 (the spec) and AISC 360 states that the Code of Std. Practice is binding unless stated otherwise in the contact documents.
RE: Structural Drawings Question
I really like it better when I am the EOR.
RE: Structural Drawings Question
RE: Structural Drawings Question
RE: Structural Drawings Question
RE: Structural Drawings Question
You need this information for the design of columns, lateral system, etc., so no excuse for not having it clearly indicated on the final CD's.
SteelPE, if what you're saying is accurate, then these "powerhouse engineering firms" aren't doing their jobs, either. I'm sure their profit margins are nice by only providing a 50% complete design, but eventually the clients will get frustrated and move on.
RE: Structural Drawings Question
Not with these powerhouse engineering companies. The engineering companies are well known and responsible for designs from 1 story to 100+ stories. I was really shocked when I received their drawings only to find the missing information. Some of these companies even take the time to put their 3D BIM model on the drawings. Nice looking set of drawings, useless when it comes time to design the items the structural engineer will not.
What typically happens is they will push out poor drawings and then the owner, architect and engineer will hold the line against the GC who will lean on ExcelEngineering to "fill in the blanks". Much easier to push ExcelEngineering than the EOR.