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Dealing with Stupid
17

Dealing with Stupid

Dealing with Stupid

(OP)
We all have to deal with stupidity.

Stupid people.

Stupid specifications.

Stupid bosses, managers, co-workers.

Stupid company policies.

How do you stay sane at work? How do you deal with all of the above?

When a co-workers requests a moronic change to one of your drawings, how do you deal with it? When you disagree with someone, how do you respectfully disagree?

RE: Dealing with Stupid

Usually with a smile and then I drive home listening to talk-radio which will take one's mind off of almost anything that happened in the office winky smile

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

I try not to be so full of myself.
Omniscience is a terrible burden.


Charlie
www.facsco.com

RE: Dealing with Stupid

If you have all these at once, I'd say update your resume and start looking.

If you have one or two, try laughing about it. I always see Mr T saying "I pity the fool..." and then I just shake my head and move on.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

2
I just take out my hearing aids.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

RE: Dealing with Stupid

I used to think I worked for an irrational idiot, now I know I do. One of the pleasures of owning the company.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

If you think EVERYONE around you is stupid, does that make you the smart one?
I believe there are more stupid people these days, but I see more ignorance than stupidity.

Chris
SolidWorks 11
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Dealing with Stupid

What really bothers me too is the igno rants.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

RE: Dealing with Stupid

I have posted in my office the following quote by Charles F. Kettering:

"Whenever you look at a piece of work
and you think the fellow was crazy,
then you want to pay some attention to that.
One of you is likely to be,
and you had better find out which one it is.
It makes an awful lot of difference."

But then posted right above it, I have...

Lazlo's Chinese Relativity Axiom:

"No matter how great your triumphs
or how tragic your defeats,
approximately one billion Chinese
couldn't care less."

That, and a bunch of 'Dilbert' cartoons, seems to help keep things in persepective...

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

Do the change just the way he asked for it, Detail the change in the change section on the drawing, hand it to him and stand back.
If the change is good you will not hear another word.
If the change is not good , what you do next is up to you, just make sure you have all your bases covered.
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

One of the defining characteristics of clueless people is they have no idea how clueless they actually are. These people tend to populate the management and executive ranks in corporations. And they are the ones who set company policy and make the final calls on engineering decisions. Both customers and employees all suffer as a result.

Maui

www.EngineeringMetallurgy.com

RE: Dealing with Stupid

There is a book titled "Putt's Law and the Successful Technocrat" published in 1981 under the pseudonym Archibald Putt.

"Every technical hierachy, in time, develops a competence inversion."

"Technology is dominated by two types of people:
1) Those who understand what they do not manage.
2) Those who manage what they do not understand."

RE: Dealing with Stupid

I thought that was covered by the "Peter's Principle"?

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

Response to stupid request: "That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. We must expedite this immediately."

RE: Dealing with Stupid

At my last job, we transferred a software engineer in from another department so I could get to my own stuff. The other department's desire to get rid of him was a telling sign, but my boss figured he could handle him. Not so much.

His main weakness? He thought everyone else was stupid. I had to explain to him that his prior several months worth of work was wasted because he didn't follow the guidelines given to him. In a cube farm, surrounded by highly-experienced engineers who did the original work, this guy proceeds to rant (in a loud voice) how the work done to this point is stupid, only a stupid person would design things this way, etc.

He resigned later that same day when it was obvious to him we were about to walk him out of the door. I guess he did something smart after all.

Lesson? You may think everyone else is stupid, but you don't let them know it. If it's a problem for you, get out, and do so with a smile on your face. Of course, if you keep running into a room full of stupid people, maybe a little introspection of your own abilities is in order.

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: Dealing with Stupid

"He resigned later that same day when it was obvious to him we were about to walk him out of the door. I guess he did something smart after all."

Actually, not; had he been walked out, he might have gotten some unemployment, which he probably would have needed.

TTFN
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers

RE: Dealing with Stupid

Unless someone in the HR department managed to write-up his dismissal such that it could be claimed that he was 'fired for cause', which would not only have denied him unemployment benefits in most states, but could have also placed a cloud over his chances of getting a job elsewhere. After all, how do you avoid not mentioning your last place of employment when filling out a job application?

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

In the US, that's gotten to be an interesting roundabout. Most companies will no longer give out any information beyond dates of employment and salary for fear of lawsuits. This actually makes it easier for scofflaws to still cite former employers, even if the partly was less than cordial.

TTFN
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers

RE: Dealing with Stupid

In the UK it is illegal to give anyone a bad reference. This has come to mean that any basic reference just giving dates of service is seen as bad and to be avoided even if that is not what was intended.

Yet another law that does the exact opposite of what it set out to do.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

Stupid people are often those people who don't think the same way as yourself on all matters. If you work in a team, each member of that team will have characteristics you can't deal with and massive blind spots. But in general they will have skills you don't have and probably think you are stupid for not having them.

- Steve

RE: Dealing with Stupid

I think the IP has to work on his communication skills: if someone does not understand you, speak more slowly and more loudly. After a while, people will assume you are stupid and leave you alone. It's worked for generations of tourists.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

Differing opinions doesn't always mean one party is stupid. How to deal with it? It is a problem, you are an engineer; solve it rationally, then go home.

If you are confident you can win the argument in less time than it takes to do the work, go for it, be polite and professional, document it. If you lose the argument or it takes up too much time, realize that your decision was wrong and has wasted even more of your time. Adjust confidence level for future encounters.

If you aren't confident you can win the argument, and there are no negative consequences, do the work per the opinion you don't agree with, be polite and professional, document it.

Then go home, and pick an argument on the internet to hone your skills.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

If you got through engineering school, then chances are that 99 pct or more of the general population actually is, relative to you, stupid, or at least ignorant.

There's no good reason to acknowledge that publicly, or to phrase it as rudely as that, if you feel the need to express the thought out loud.

You might wish to say something nominally inoffensive or even complimentary while reserving a private meaning for yourself.
For example, my friend Ermi uses "Amazing!" as a general response meaning "Stupid!" or worse.

I find a simple "Wow!" is often misunderstood as something other than a pejorative.

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: Dealing with Stupid

It's called "Life". Get used to it.

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

If you're constantly surrounded by stupid people, you can do a couple of things: (1) improve your teaching, and (2) upgrade your status and respectability so that people will listen to you. I find I'm better at both when I consider those around me to be well-meaning and intelligent, but with different perspectives, goals, and experiences.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

(OP)
Some clever answers, some funny answers, a couple of actual pieces of good advice, and a couple of people who are a little cranky themselves. winky smile

Always a pleasure to hear what you all have to say.




RE: Dealing with Stupid

I have found that those who proclaim, "I'm not crazy, I'm not crazy, I'm not crazy", usually are. Think about it.

Good luck,
Latexman

Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers

RE: Dealing with Stupid

Just thinking about it drives me crazy!

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

RE: Dealing with Stupid

Are you smart enough to deal with stupid people?

RE: Dealing with Stupid

(OP)
Just for clarification - I am personally not surrounded by all of these things, but was just writing generically for the sake of stimulating conversation.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

Tick:

Could you run that by me again?

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

RE: Dealing with Stupid

"Stupid is as stupid does"
--Forrest Gump

I have to look at that person and work really hard until I realize that we're both just people. I'm no better, and neither is he or she. I'll admit that it takes a lot of concentration with some folks. I'll also admit that I fail at it when they really get going on a rant. Ah, to strive for perfection and reach for the stars and perhaps touch one if I try hard enough.

"That'd burn your hand clean off."
--Wally

Best to you,

Goober Dave

Haven't see the forum policies? Do so now: Forum Policies

RE: Dealing with Stupid

Based on Latexman's point, I have begun to chant, "I am not rich, I am not rich, I am not rich!" So far, no change. If I suddenly disappear from the forum, feel free to assume I became miraculously wealthy and immdediately stopped all engineering activities to ward off lawsuits. clown

RE: Dealing with Stupid

My least favorite question in the world:

Quote:

If you're so smart, why aren't you rich?

RE: Dealing with Stupid

A man has a flat tire right out side of a sanitarium. While changing the tire he kicks the hub cap with the lug nuts in it and they go down into the sewer drain.
He doesn't know what to do next. The man at the fence tells him to take a lug nut off of each of the other wheels and drive slowly into town where he can buy more.
The man thinks that is a brilliant solution. He says so and the inmate says "I'm not stupid, I'm in here because I'm crazy"

RE: Dealing with Stupid

frusso110: you can lose your mind struggling against the stupidity. Or you can give in, and accept the things you can't change. Sometimes, giving in can make you richer than fighting it. I have to make an extra special effort to stop even trying to talk some clients out of wasteful, ineffective and expensive stuff they want to pay me for- at least the stuff they want (or at least the stuff they specify) that it's possible for me to deliver.

KENAT: that's a brilliant comeback!




RE: Dealing with Stupid

“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”
― Albert Einstein

Chris
SolidWorks 11
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Dealing with Stupid

frusso110
"" Just for clarification - I am personally not surrounded by all of these things, but was just writing generically for the sake of stimulating conversation. ""
So you get everybody worked up on a generic question, Isn't that in itself a little senseless?
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

I think you found teammates instead...

Best to you,

Goober Dave

Haven't see the forum policies? Do so now: Forum Policies

RE: Dealing with Stupid

This little ditty pops up in my ear whenever I see the thread title:


Happy is the moron, who doesn't give a damn.
I wish I were a moron, my God perhaps I am.

- Steve

RE: Dealing with Stupid

(OP)
@berskshire
I'll just stick to the topic with some examples.

Sometimes things are worth fighting over.

Manufacturing does not like the use of section views in assembly prints. They claim it is too difficult for the assembly people to follow and they confuse everyone looking at the drawing. (There is no evidence of this - the assembly people rarely look at prints anyway.)

It is my opinion that a section view showing the final assembled position of an internal part in my assembly in addition to orthographic and exploded views, is actually a requirement of the assembly. This ADDS clarity to the drawing. IMO if you can't read a section view, then you need to ask someone to help you so you can learn how to do your job. Keep in my that I also have exploded views - the section view eliminates ambiguity as to where parts finally end up. 50 years ago, exploded views did not exist at my company, and drawings had 1/10th the detail that I'm putting into my drawings now.

Sometimes things are not worth fighting over. The guy that collects everyone's garbage always puts my garbage can wherever is most convenient for him - never back where he found it. Every day I need to move it back. I just laugh at this and move on with my day.

For me, stupid problems happen every day. In fact, 90% of all my work is dealing with stupid problems. I deal with it and move on. Sometimes I am bothered for weeks at a time, but eventually I will remedy the situation. Sometimes talk radio is enough. More often then not I need some intense physical activity to feel like myself again. Sometimes I need to complete a home project or have a couple of beers with the guys.

That is the point of this thread. What do you do? A lot of people tend to ignore the underlying issues and are content living in a sub-optimal world.

Do you go and talk to the person or management about the issue? How does one work out problems with uneducated stubborn people without any listening comprehension skills?

RE: Dealing with Stupid

frusso, your tail of woe about assy drawings warms the cockles of my heart.  I'm so glad I'm not the only one facing those issues - except for the part where it implies I'm enjoying your sufferingwinky smile.

Dealing with at least what appears to be 'stupid' can be frustrating.  Just so happens I posted about frustration a few years back: thread731-179040: Overcoming Frustration.



Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: Dealing with Stupid

Frusso and Kenat, somehow, unbeknownst to me, you must be my co-workers!!! I can always tell whenever one of the production guys has actually dusted off a drawing jacket and looked up something for reference, because the complaint of "your drawings are too complicated and have too much stuff on them" is sure to follow.

We try to mitigate this with blueprint reading training, and try to keep it simple by explaining what a section view or exploded diagram actaully is, and how it's easier to understand, and how to reference the parts list and that the little number balloons actually correspond to the parts list. Concluding with "now get the he!! back to work". I actually only think the last part, but some day the Freudian tendency is going to slip a cog and I'll blurt it out.

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

Quote (TheTick)

If you're so smart, why aren't you rich?
Because my intelligence is being continually diluted by you guys...

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: Dealing with Stupid

Quote:

If you're so smart, why aren't you rich?

Because I also have a code of ethics that I adhere to.

Maui

www.EngineeringMetallurgy.com

RE: Dealing with Stupid

Engineering drawings (especially assembly drawings) are problematic because everybody wants a piece of the action. Every individual wants all the information he needs and nothing else to clutter it up. Nobody wants to look up a BOM or work instructions from the PLM system. Nobody wants to even learn how to properly read a drawing, but they all want the drawing to make "instant sense" at first glance.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

Hi frusso110 - I am your garbage man.
Every day you put your garbage can out of reach for me.  I have 300 garbage cans to dump each day.  Have to go out of my way to get yours, puts me behind - no one cares I am just the garbage man.  Maybe if I put your garbage can where it is easier for me, you will start putting your garbage can there.

Nope - not today - people can be so stupid.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

Frusso 110,
The things you describe happen no matter where you go.
It was my turn in this barrel two weeks ago. An Engineer submitted a hand drawn sketch for a job, this was approved and construction started on a very fancy stainless steel kitchen hood. The hood was finished and sitting in the shop awaiting delivery. The contractor then had a hizzy fit and said he could not work off a sketch and demanded drawings to scale ( The sketch had been produced from on site measurements the contractor had assisted in providing.) . The engineer asked me to produce these drawings, which I did.
Everything went quiet for about a week, then the customer came back with several design changes that completely altered the shape, size, and style of the hood. As I said before, it was already made.
So I modified the drawings, they then got these approved by the customer ( Not the contractor.), with an agreement to pay for the changes.
Then I ended up doing detailed shop drawings for the changes, incorporating as much of the existing hood as I could.
The modified hood was finally delivered to the job site Monday Three weeks after this all started.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

(OP)
hahahaha.  Well done.

Although to be fair, it's my job to engineer things, not to make garbage collection easier.  If I really cared I would have spoken with the garbage supervisor and determined who's responsibility it was to place the can in the designated location.

Still.  Great point.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

(OP)
@monkeydog

I just put my garbage outside my cube. winky smile

RE: Dealing with Stupid

3
Frusso110,

Your response says much of how you see yourself with respect to your interaction with other people.

Good luck to you in the future.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

Don't argue with idiots. They'll drag you down to their level then beat you with their experience

RE: Dealing with Stupid

Frusso 110

I'm trying to figure out where you likely work. The first place that comes to mind is the White House. The second is Detroit City Government.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

On Dustbin day, when I drive home I find my dustbin placed in front of my drive. So I have to get out of my car to move the dustbin before driving my car onto my drive.

It's not a big deal, but it frustrates me that the dustman (not the same guy every time) does consider me. Putting my bin to one side of my drive would mean taking another 2 -3 steps for him, which is obviously too much.

Solution: Do nothing, move the bin myself as it allows me to moan and gives me something to talk about.

Moral: Life would be dull if there were no obstacles in my way.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

Place the dustbin/garbage can farther from your drive when you put it out in the morning. He's not going to walk an extra 20' just to place it in the middle of your drive.

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: Dealing with Stupid

(OP)
The joking nature of my previous couple comments may or may have actually come through the internets. smile

RE: Dealing with Stupid

"Place the dustbin/garbage can farther from your drive when you put it out in the morning. He's not going to walk an extra 20' just to place it in the middle of your drive."

Sure, he would. What other pleasure could he derive from his work, other than to know that he made a significant impact on your day?

TTFN
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers

RE: Dealing with Stupid

No matter where the person in question left your empty garbage can, do you not have to return it to your house anyway?

RE: Dealing with Stupid

It's like the guy who insisted on throwing the morning newspaper under my car. We have a two-car wide driveway and yet for awhile it would seem like on three out of four days, the newspaper was under my car (my wife's car is parked in the garage). I finally took a picture of my driveway showing how much 'space' was available and where the papers were being found each morning and mailed it, along with some additional well-chosen 'prose', to the subscription department. It must have worked as it's been several months now since I've had to crawl on my hands and knees to retrieve the paper. Either they replaced the delivery guy or someone had a truly serious talk with him.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

Sounds like you weren't tipping well enough at Christmas.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

TenPenny, he had to park in the street, get out, move the can (so the car didn't hit it), get back in the car, and then pull in.

My guess is he put liquids in the trash too many times and the bag blew, leaked on the garbage man. I will never put liquid (or ice) into a trash can. Dump it outside, or find a sink. There is not much worse than trash juice.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

Back in my younger days, we had a particularly cantankerous garbage man that would refuse to empty the can if it weighed more than about 20 lbs. I rigged a pullstring firecracker to the lid once, and had the pleasure of watching him scream and assume a karate-like defense pose when he set the thing off. Nowadays, I'd likely wind up in jail for a prank like that. We both had a good laugh over it, after the fact, and actually got along very well after that. Hopefully I didn't contribute to any anxiety disorder, it had to be a fresh memory every time he got to our stop.

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

(OP)
The ol' firecracker to the garbage can lid trick. Garbage men these days don't know how easy they have it.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

After years of experience with this i do the following.

1 Let stupidity run its course, you are powerless to change it anyway.

2 Learn to enjoy thinking about how stupidity happens with respect to the individuals you work with.
Each person is somewhat of an enigma, try to determine how they think, but do not try to correct.

3 Support stupidity in its run to the dead end. This may be the fastest way to get past it.

4 Enjoy observing the chaos as you might watch the flame of a fire or a babbling brook.

5 Read Douglas Adams Hitchhiker series, and also the previously mentioned Putt's Law.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

The only problem with 2dye4 suggestion is that it suppose you don't engage your professional responsability !

RE: Dealing with Stupid

The responsibility is to identify and articulate the concern to the responsible party, not to resolve something when you don't have the authority to do so.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

Quote (2dye4)

Enjoy observing the chaos as you might watch the flame of a fire or a babbling brook.
I do that whenever possible... fire is cool, and water is relaxing.

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: Dealing with Stupid

I train, or spend time with my little girl. Those two always help. Puts things in perspective too.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

(OP)
Thanks 2dye4. I really appreciate your response. smile

RE: Dealing with Stupid

I'm old enough to realize that some times, I AM the stupid.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

This topic reminds me of the old communication debate between engineers and sales & marketing. One never understands the other. Since I am both - stupidity and frustration is my normal day. Thank God for cold beer and weekends.



“Life's hard. It's even harder when you're stupid.”
― John Wayne


www.Exlar.com


RE: Dealing with Stupid

Drink. Lots of drinking.

RE: Dealing with Stupid

Boynt, I like that quote. But it wasn't said by John Wayne, at least not in any of his movies. It was uttered by Steven Keats's character Jackie Brown in the movie The Friends of Eddie Coyle starring Robert Mitchum.

Maui

www.EngineeringMetallurgy.com

RE: Dealing with Stupid

CorBlimeylimey, if you watch the Sands of Iwo Jima you'll find that that line is never spoken by any of the characters.

Maui

www.EngineeringMetallurgy.com

RE: Dealing with Stupid

Maui
You are correct.
I simply grabbed the quote from the internet. And of course everything is true on the internet - right?bigsmile


www.Exlar.com


RE: Dealing with Stupid

"Frusso110, You wrote, "When you disagree with someone, how do you respectfully disagree?"

I can share with you a bit from a business owner's point of view. Respectfully disagreeing with colleagues is critical to the overall functioning of a company. Getting along with the other workers is very high on our list of things we require of an employee. No one knows everything. We can, and do, forgive mistakes. Employees, however, who cause problems and make other people feel uncomfortable--no matter how smart they are--are usually looking for another job very quickly.

David
:):):)

www.kirkhammotorsports.com

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