Consulting fee for a repetitive system
Consulting fee for a repetitive system
(OP)
I have been asked a number of times from the same client to look at a potential project over the last 18 months. The project is to design a solar panel support rack systems. Each time I have given my client basic information on a proposed design and my professional opinion to help them out but have never gotten into the nuts and bolts of the design. Basically I don't think the project is going to go forward and I don't want to waste my time. The project is coming back around again and #'s seem to be a little more realistic.
From what I can tell, my design would involve the design of the rack systems (support racks, purlins and foundations) for the solar panels. I would basically design 1 rack system and then that system would be repeated however many times on the same site (possibly hundreds of times). The racking system would be designed to be site specific and not be allowed anywhere else except for the proposed project.
I ended up wondering what I would charge to design a full system? I was thinking of figuring out a set fee to design the system and then adding to that fee another fee based upon however many times the system was to be reproduced on the same site (say 2%-5% the initial design cost x # of systems needed). If something needs to be fixed..... it could potentially need to be fixed 100's of times and I want to make sure I properly account for this exposure. How do others handle billing for a project of this type?
From what I can tell, my design would involve the design of the rack systems (support racks, purlins and foundations) for the solar panels. I would basically design 1 rack system and then that system would be repeated however many times on the same site (possibly hundreds of times). The racking system would be designed to be site specific and not be allowed anywhere else except for the proposed project.
I ended up wondering what I would charge to design a full system? I was thinking of figuring out a set fee to design the system and then adding to that fee another fee based upon however many times the system was to be reproduced on the same site (say 2%-5% the initial design cost x # of systems needed). If something needs to be fixed..... it could potentially need to be fixed 100's of times and I want to make sure I properly account for this exposure. How do others handle billing for a project of this type?





RE: Consulting fee for a repetitive system
I'm thinking thousands per site, based on the few solar installations I've seen.
>>>not be allowed anywhere else except for the proposed project.<<<
Absent a patent, how could you enforce this?
If somebody tools up to make thousands of your systems for one site, they'll be strongly tempted to sell the same system elsewhere, especially if it's worth a crap in terms of ease of manufacture or assembly. Perhaps you'd be better off getting a piece of that action.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Consulting fee for a repetitive system
RE: Consulting fee for a repetitive system
How do I enforce this? I sign and seal drawings with project specific information (address, wind loading, snow loading etc...). The drawings would include a typical disclaimer about the information only being used for the proposed project. If the client manufactures this for some other location and it fails that's not my problem, it's theirs. If the client took my drawings to another engineer who would take responsibility for another site.......... I'm not sure if I would even care as long as I was paid for the initial project.
I thought "a piece of the action" was discussed somewhere on this site recently (although the case was slightly different) and it was determined that getting a piece of the action was not allowed under the engineering code of ethics (think conflict of interest).
RE: Consulting fee for a repetitive system
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RE: Consulting fee for a repetitive system
IR stuff, if it takes me 1 week to design a frame and the frame is used 4,000 times that is a huge amount of liability. In my terms, 1 week of work is billed at $5,000. I don't think my insurance company would appreciate this type of exposure for such a little fee (since they base my premium off of my billings).
RE: Consulting fee for a repetitive system
RE: Consulting fee for a repetitive system
How is it going to fail? I don't know. If I knew specifically how it was going to fail I would design the system so it didn't fail in that manner. :) As far as I know, my major concerns are wind, snow and earthquake..... mostly wind and snow.
I agree with the life safety issue, none as far as I can tell. With the repetitive nature of the system the client is looking for the most efficient system that I can design. We have worked together before in the past so he is aware of my capabilities. Now that I think about it, while material cost is a concern, I believe a large portion of the cost comes in the required "man hours" for fabrication and installation of the systems. So, efficiency while important, is probably not a primary concern.
So, if it took you $100 worth of work to design the system and prepare a set of drawings showing the required sizes of the members, would you only charge the client $100 for a this system that he was going to employ 4,000 times on the same site?
RE: Consulting fee for a repetitive system
I'd also put in more of it, in the name of DFMA. (You can find a little reading material; take a course someday if you can.)
e.g.
- Minimize the number of fasteners.
- Minimize the number of different fasteners.
- Minimize the linear inches of welding.
- Maximize the use of each 'stick' of metal. Ideally, the only waste should be chips under the saw, or better, burrs under a metalworker.
Ideally, you'd work up a process sheet and a spreadsheet for whatever assemblies are needed, get some quotes as needed, and try to minimize the total assembled and installed cost right down to the paint, backfill and grass seed.
So, efficiency is paramount, but it's defined over a larger scope than just structural efficiency.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Consulting fee for a repetitive system
RE: Consulting fee for a repetitive system
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RE: Consulting fee for a repetitive system
The separate policy is a thought though.
RE: Consulting fee for a repetitive system
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Consulting fee for a repetitive system
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RE: Consulting fee for a repetitive system
RE: Consulting fee for a repetitive system
I already know how many of these need to be used onsite. My proposal would include the "fee" based upon the number of frames needed. So all the client would see is a lump sum cost for engineering.
RE: Consulting fee for a repetitive system
It is a tricky question though in relation to fees, and seeing your design produced multiple times and not getting a bit of the pie every time would be tough!
RE: Consulting fee for a repetitive system
Cheers
Greg Locock
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RE: Consulting fee for a repetitive system