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How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
15

How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

(OP)
Does this develop working in large comapanies, certain industries(automotive?), or just personality?

RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

5
My advice is to get a first job with a real bunch of A holes. I mean from the upper management to the guys in the trenches. It's not restricted to large companies, but if you'd like a real variety, they're the best. That way, you'll develop a thick skin when you're young and impressionable. And after that, any amount of professionalism or kindness seem like a big deal.
That's the way it worked for me.

RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

Everyone is different. Depends how you were raised, and you. Don't over-dramatize the little stuff.

Chris
SolidWorks 11
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

Size of company and industry do not matter, it's all about you and how you perceive criticism and other comments. We just had an employee visit HR a few weeks ago for blowing up at a meeting because the phrase "barking up the wrong tree" was used. The person thought the comment meant someone was calling him a dog.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

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RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

Can you deal with people who don't know the details, making decisions that make your job more difficult/tedious/impossible?

If you are still with me, can you then re-do the work like you originally planned, by working unpaid overtime, once it is proven that the management decision was not the best (or even a feasible) path forward?

Ok almost there, can you then take the blame for all of the delays and wasted efforts?


If you made it through that, your skin is thick enough. If you can do it with a smile, you are golden. If you didn't make it past step #2, then you just need more practice. Makes me cringe to call that "experience" so I won't do it, you don't really learn anything other than to keep your mouth shut and leave it all at the office once you walk out the door.

RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

I submit that the ability to have a "thick skin" and be tolerant of abuse is a personality trait. I suspect that the bad stuff happens in every industry and every size company. People are morally weak and abusive/abrasive/hostile everywhere you go. But my experience leads me to conclude that large companies in general, and automotive companies specifically, are the worst. As a wise friend told me years ago: "Large companies are terrible because they have all sorts of nooks and crannies where bad behavior can hide and flourish."

I am always fascinated with the personality of those folks who can get emasculated by their boss while he pats them on the back, or suffer any number of sociopathic corporate behaviors, and silently suffer through it or even ignore it. Or as was said, "...leave it at the office..." . I'm green with envy of people who can do that.

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering
www.bluetechnik.com

RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

4
A rather classy cricketer, ex RAAF, was asked if he felt under pressure during an international. "pressure is a Messerschmitt up your arse, playing cricket is not". If they aren't actively trying to kill you then it's just words.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

My method of developing thick skin was inspired by a great boss early in my career. I complained one day about the length of my things-to-do list and the fact that I was getting blamed for missing impossible deadlines. I was stressed. His response:

"If the job were easy, we'd hire high-school kids to do it. If the job were fun, we wouldn't have to pay you. Get busy."

LPS for Greg. You actually adjusted my attitude this morning. I could be jobless with hungry kids. Taking heat at work is better.

Best to you,

Goober Dave

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RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

I think the ultimate key to having a thick skin is to understand yourself, and then to understand the nature of the people around you. Nearly everyone lives in their own little universe where they are the star of their own drama series. To them, you are a character or a prop. Nothing they do or say to you is personal.

RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

I have to step back and remind myself of the same thing as the Tick said. Often times I find myself in conflict with experienced, highly motivated individuals who want the best, but can only see their way of doing it. By standing my ground while going out of my way to remain very professional sometimes I can break through the personal issues and gain their friendship and support. Those that I can't flip probably are total and complete arseholes and treat everyone badly, so just let it go.

It also helps to pick your battles, not the ones you hold near and dear, but the ones you can win, and be nice about it. Once you have a reputation as a gracious winner, you'll have an easier go.

I'll admit, easy to say, Hard to practice.

RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

Quote:

I am always fascinated with the personality of those folks who can get emasculated by their boss while he pats them on the back, or suffer any number of sociopathic corporate behaviors, and silently suffer through it or even ignore it.

Nothing fascination about it, just being practical and efficient. When nobody cares if you are right or wrong, there is limited value in proving it, no value in worrying about it, and hard to justify wasting time doing either when you should be wasting time doing what the boss asked.

RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

Quote:


I am always fascinated with the personality of those folks who can get emasculated by their boss while he pats them on the back, or suffer any number of sociopathic corporate behaviors, and silently suffer through it or even ignore it. Or as was said, "...leave it at the office..." . I'm green with envy of people who can do that.

Some people understand that what happens at work is not the most important thing in life. If your boss is a dick, you either put up with it and ignore it, or get another boss one way or another. Letting your work destroy your life or your self esteem is so 1950s. Just not worth doing.

As a student, I worked with a Mine Planner who said, 'Yeah, whatever, I had a job before this one, I'll have a job after this one.'

RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

I have a number of stories that start with " I once had a bi-polor boss..." every boss since has been pale in comparison.

I dont think its good to grow "thick skin" more... more... accept that jerks are a part of life, get over it.

RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

There once was a boss from Nantucket...

RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

I had a great place to work at for my 2nd job. My first week they were taking bets on who would be first to leave or be fired. Every project manager made one of the female employees cry at some point. There were yelling matches constantly. People blaming other's for who knows what. I managed to stay there for almost 3 years and learned that I now have thick skin while running my own company.

Near the end I had an argument with an older engineer because I was fixing a badly spliced together topography for a large subdivision. Everyone for years was designing to the wrong property lines and buildings on half of a map. About 70 houses and a major street into a new 500 lot subdivision. So grading was sort of important to tie everything together. Turns out the hillside grading was going right through existing backyards, pools and some houses. What did I get for this? She madly dashed through the entire office and told on me to the director of engineering and the 3 owners. The owner that I was under came by the next morning and just laughed after I told him what happened.

I had this happen a few other times with the old school drafters. They wouldn't design the way I wanted and I got chewed out. The younger drafters knew I was trying to be more efficient in using my resources and had my back on that one.

And yes I heard the stories of past engineers having heart attacks getting into these arguments. It must have been some weird ritual to be part of the club. So what did I learn? Go work for a few years at a company with a mix of engineering ages. Don't be afraid to stand up for your designs. And when it seems like it can't get any worse find a new job and realize sometimes the grass actually is greener on the other side.

B+W Engineering and Design
Los Angeles Civil Engineer and Structural Engineer
http://bwengr.com | http://bwstructuralengineer.com | http://bwcivilengineer.com

RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

I don't think skin can grow thick enough to help you if a co-worker wants to throw you under the bus.

If you are offended by the things I say, imagine the stuff I hold back.

RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

Snorgy...now I have coffee on my screen!rofl2

RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

Finish the danged limerick for us Snorgy!

Best to you,

Goober Dave

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RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

I would finish, but I am having trouble finding the right forum.

RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

There once was a boss from Nantucket
Who knew not a drop in a bucket.
On his farm, he did sicken
When he choked on his chicken
Because he was too stupid to pluck it.

RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

That's not the version I've heard.

RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

"It also helps to pick your battles, not the ones you hold near and dear, but the ones you can win, and be nice about it. Once you have a reputation as a gracious winner, you'll have an easier go."

My boss recently said (when I had the technical answer but other factors were not favorable to overturn a situation), "Do you really want to die on that hill?" Which is to say, choose your battles strategically and not based on the involvement you personally have in a matter.

So the thick skin thing is all relative. What bothers you more: when people listen to you and choose something else, or people who make it clear from the beginning what their intention is? I'd rather know early so that I can state my case and let it go. The choice to circle back and pursue it again should not be made often. There aren't many hills where the certainty of success and criticality make for a hill worth taking.

David

RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

My past two companies I have worked for A holes. I refused to believe that this is how work is and i must accept people like this. So I resigned and moved on. I have learnt a great deal in my short career, 7 years, but one thing for sure i can tell you. DO NOT SETTLE for less than what you want in life.

I now report to an excellent boss, and the work is bringing out the best in me. So many guys along the way just accept their employment conditions and dread every day of their working life.

I now have built a thick skin, can deal with self abosrbed A holes, and know exactly how to put them in their place.

"onwards and upwards"

RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life.
-Confucius

RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

"What bothers you more: when people listen to you and choose something else, or people who make it clear from the beginning what their intention is?"

People who listen to me and choose something else don't bother me at all. I'm not of the opinion that I am God, people are free to have different solutions or opinions if they wish. It's nice to be asked for my input, but I'm surely not offended if people do things differently, even if they're wrong in the end.

On the other hand, if people make it clear at the beginning what their intention is, I don't see the point of giving my input, it's just wasted effort.

RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

2
You should realize that to some of the employees at your workplace, YOU are the a$$hole. If you buck the general consensus and voice a dissenting opinion, it may not matter to them that you can back it up with data and facts; to stand alone from the rest of the crowd is an affront because you are sending them the message that they are wrong. Be sure to voice your opinion clearly and succinctly. Then walk away. If they consider what you said before they make their decision, great. If not, then they should be the ones who have to clean up the mess they make. In the end it's all just a matter of perspective. You don't need to force your opinions down anyone's throat. Simply let them make their own decisions (whether right or wrong) after voicing your opinion. If you are able to do this your life will become less stressful, and your skin surprisingly thick.

The bad behavior that you often see, like the shouting amtches that many have described in this forum, result from personal insecurity. Pity these people. Do not emulate them.

Maui

www.EngineeringMetallurgy.com

RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

The person who signs your paycheck is your boss. Everyone else is a secondary customer. If you want thick skin, work as a restaurant line cook or short order cook for a year or two. Everything else is a calm and laid back profession by comparison, except maybe an ER nurse.

Life is short, and as others have said, pick your battles. Very little in life is actually worth getting upset about. If you have toxic people in your organization, sabotage them. Carfeully. Seriously, do what you can to get them out, or get yourself out if the whole organization is infected. It's not worth it to stay in a cancerous environment because you will eventually become like them just to survive.

If you are the toxic person, you probably don't even realize it. But if you do, do what you can to change and learn to get along with people to get the job done with a minimum of drama.

My 2 cents.

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

I've heard choking the chicken in another context...

Excuse me now as I red flag myself...

tg

RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

It depends on the gender of the chicken. For a hen, you might be OK, otherwise I concur that you might be in red flag territory.

RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

Another quote I have always liked: I do need a job; I don't necessarily need this one!

Life's to short to suffer endlessly at work. Gotta remember - money and fun. If you are not receiving both, you might think about going elsewhere. I think it's personality. I'm in oil & gas; it can happen anywhere.

RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

2
I've found two things:

1) Your skin gets a lot thicker at a job if you know you can walk away from it.

2) Your skin gets a lot thicker if you're the one that chose the job / client, and you're the one making the money from the job.

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East - http://www.campbellcivil.com

RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

Amen beej67. It's amazing how much better you feel when you're not being ripped off, or held at gunpoint by a job. I personally need to own my job rather than being owned by it. That requires some deliberate choices in relation to how you choose to live, particularly related to how you spend your money.

I'd way rather work with people who are passionate about what they do than people who go through the motions just to be nice. It's inevitable that there will be friction between passionate people who differ about how to do the right thing, or about what the right thing is. It needs to be managed properly so that it doesn't get out of hand and to ensure that everybody remains focused on getting the right thing as an end result. But if that is in place, that creative tension and friction can be very stimulating.

RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

As far as "where you develop thick skin.." ..you used to develop it in college. Engineering programs across the country were known for being very tough, forcing you to go to great lengths to keep up, and then sometimes screwing you anyway, so you'd get used to the sorts of events in the corporate world that would drive a graduate of an easy college to quit. In the prior century, college taught not only material, but also thickened your skin.

Nowadays, with the invention of the US News and World Report ranking system, colleges have largely stopped thickening their students skin, opting instead simply to focus on the material. The reason is that USNWR gives colleges higher rankings for student retention and higher rankings for higher GPA. So the best university on the block would drop down to the 15s if their average GPAs were in the 2s and retention was only in the 70s. So everyone's giving a lot more As and Bs now, to compete. Basically, colleges were punished by the independent third party ranking system for thickening their students' skin.

I have mixed feelings about the modern changes in college grading and mindset. On the one hand, I think I benefited professionally from the "skin-thickening" I acquired in undergrad. On the other, I'm not sure the benefit outweighed the overall pain-in-the-ass I endured as an undergrad, and in some ways I'm happy for modern students that their struggles are more reasonable.

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East - http://www.campbellcivil.com

RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

Thick skin?

I'm a very young engineer and I work for a very small company where people are pretty honest with each other. From the responses I read, I find it alarming that the general attitude is "putting up with your bosses", "deal with the A hole"... The ultimate picture is, how do I survive this cruel treatment at work. From what I see here, everyone expects to have bosses and co-workers that give them a hard time. Why should that be the norm?

Since when work becomes dealing with your co-workers and bosses instead of actually producing and make the world turn?

Since I'm young, I want to make a mark from what I do. People playing politics with me are wastes of my time. I walk away from them as needed. You'll say we need that job. we do, but there are more jobs out there, just not many that fit your criteria. We are also afraid of change, so we "thicken our skin" to plow through, as if we are building courage to endure hardship. However, if fact, it is a move of a coward who's afraid to make a change (change of job perhaps? change people's attitudes? Put people in their place so they respect you?)

Take an active role instead of "thicken your skin" so you can endure. Life aren't worth living suffering like that.

RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

Olidin, I applaud your idealistic attitude. You will soon find that not all people are on that level of thinking. You inadvertantly identified the class of person against which a thick skin is required, the coward.

There are numerous people in the workforce, greater than 50% I daresay, from my own experience, that are afraid of change (therefore, growth and improvement) and must do what they can to cement their position in the firm. If one is not growing and improving, but must still retain their own good standing, then what is the only course of action? They must tear down and sabotage others. Sounds cynical, but give it a few years and you'll see exactly that.

Meanwhile, don't lose your professional attitude, cover yourself, make sure your work and your successes are well documented (so that you get credit for them)and just be aware that "smiling faces sometimes tell lies", to borrow from an old song.

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?

"Your mileage may vary" applies here. There are those that have NEVER been laid off; there are those that have been unemployed for years. Likewise, there are those that have had excellent managers and those that have the a-holes. This is no different that the fact that there are engineers that come here that are extraordinarily talented engineers, and there are those who I want to identify so that I will never have them do ANY engineering.

Given the spectrum of engineers here, one can quite readily imagine a similar distribution for any other category of people, including managers.

TTFN
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