How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
(OP)
Does this develop working in large comapanies, certain industries(automotive?), or just personality?
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How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
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How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?(OP)
Does this develop working in large comapanies, certain industries(automotive?), or just personality?
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RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
That's the way it worked for me.
RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
Chris
SolidWorks 11
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion
RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."
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RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
If you are still with me, can you then re-do the work like you originally planned, by working unpaid overtime, once it is proven that the management decision was not the best (or even a feasible) path forward?
Ok almost there, can you then take the blame for all of the delays and wasted efforts?
If you made it through that, your skin is thick enough. If you can do it with a smile, you are golden. If you didn't make it past step #2, then you just need more practice. Makes me cringe to call that "experience" so I won't do it, you don't really learn anything other than to keep your mouth shut and leave it all at the office once you walk out the door.
RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
I am always fascinated with the personality of those folks who can get emasculated by their boss while he pats them on the back, or suffer any number of sociopathic corporate behaviors, and silently suffer through it or even ignore it. Or as was said, "...leave it at the office..." . I'm green with envy of people who can do that.
TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering
www.bluetechnik.com
RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
Cheers
Greg Locock
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RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
"If the job were easy, we'd hire high-school kids to do it. If the job were fun, we wouldn't have to pay you. Get busy."
LPS for Greg. You actually adjusted my attitude this morning. I could be jobless with hungry kids. Taking heat at work is better.
Best to you,
Goober Dave
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RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
It also helps to pick your battles, not the ones you hold near and dear, but the ones you can win, and be nice about it. Once you have a reputation as a gracious winner, you'll have an easier go.
I'll admit, easy to say, Hard to practice.
RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
Nothing fascination about it, just being practical and efficient. When nobody cares if you are right or wrong, there is limited value in proving it, no value in worrying about it, and hard to justify wasting time doing either when you should be wasting time doing what the boss asked.
RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
Some people understand that what happens at work is not the most important thing in life. If your boss is a dick, you either put up with it and ignore it, or get another boss one way or another. Letting your work destroy your life or your self esteem is so 1950s. Just not worth doing.
As a student, I worked with a Mine Planner who said, 'Yeah, whatever, I had a job before this one, I'll have a job after this one.'
RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
I dont think its good to grow "thick skin" more... more... accept that jerks are a part of life, get over it.
RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
Near the end I had an argument with an older engineer because I was fixing a badly spliced together topography for a large subdivision. Everyone for years was designing to the wrong property lines and buildings on half of a map. About 70 houses and a major street into a new 500 lot subdivision. So grading was sort of important to tie everything together. Turns out the hillside grading was going right through existing backyards, pools and some houses. What did I get for this? She madly dashed through the entire office and told on me to the director of engineering and the 3 owners. The owner that I was under came by the next morning and just laughed after I told him what happened.
I had this happen a few other times with the old school drafters. They wouldn't design the way I wanted and I got chewed out. The younger drafters knew I was trying to be more efficient in using my resources and had my back on that one.
And yes I heard the stories of past engineers having heart attacks getting into these arguments. It must have been some weird ritual to be part of the club. So what did I learn? Go work for a few years at a company with a mix of engineering ages. Don't be afraid to stand up for your designs. And when it seems like it can't get any worse find a new job and realize sometimes the grass actually is greener on the other side.
B+W Engineering and Design
Los Angeles Civil Engineer and Structural Engineer
http://bwengr.com | http://bwstructuralengineer.com | http://bwcivilengineer.com
RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
If you are offended by the things I say, imagine the stuff I hold back.
RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
Best to you,
Goober Dave
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RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
Who knew not a drop in a bucket.
On his farm, he did sicken
When he choked on his chicken
Because he was too stupid to pluck it.
RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
My boss recently said (when I had the technical answer but other factors were not favorable to overturn a situation), "Do you really want to die on that hill?" Which is to say, choose your battles strategically and not based on the involvement you personally have in a matter.
So the thick skin thing is all relative. What bothers you more: when people listen to you and choose something else, or people who make it clear from the beginning what their intention is? I'd rather know early so that I can state my case and let it go. The choice to circle back and pursue it again should not be made often. There aren't many hills where the certainty of success and criticality make for a hill worth taking.
David
RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
I now report to an excellent boss, and the work is bringing out the best in me. So many guys along the way just accept their employment conditions and dread every day of their working life.
I now have built a thick skin, can deal with self abosrbed A holes, and know exactly how to put them in their place.
"onwards and upwards"
RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
-Confucius
RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
People who listen to me and choose something else don't bother me at all. I'm not of the opinion that I am God, people are free to have different solutions or opinions if they wish. It's nice to be asked for my input, but I'm surely not offended if people do things differently, even if they're wrong in the end.
On the other hand, if people make it clear at the beginning what their intention is, I don't see the point of giving my input, it's just wasted effort.
RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
The bad behavior that you often see, like the shouting amtches that many have described in this forum, result from personal insecurity. Pity these people. Do not emulate them.
Maui
www.EngineeringMetallurgy.com
RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
Life is short, and as others have said, pick your battles. Very little in life is actually worth getting upset about. If you have toxic people in your organization, sabotage them. Carfeully. Seriously, do what you can to get them out, or get yourself out if the whole organization is infected. It's not worth it to stay in a cancerous environment because you will eventually become like them just to survive.
If you are the toxic person, you probably don't even realize it. But if you do, do what you can to change and learn to get along with people to get the job done with a minimum of drama.
My 2 cents.
It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.
RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
Excuse me now as I red flag myself...
tg
RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
Life's to short to suffer endlessly at work. Gotta remember - money and fun. If you are not receiving both, you might think about going elsewhere. I think it's personality. I'm in oil & gas; it can happen anywhere.
RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
1) Your skin gets a lot thicker at a job if you know you can walk away from it.
2) Your skin gets a lot thicker if you're the one that chose the job / client, and you're the one making the money from the job.
Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East - http://www.campbellcivil.com
RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
I'd way rather work with people who are passionate about what they do than people who go through the motions just to be nice. It's inevitable that there will be friction between passionate people who differ about how to do the right thing, or about what the right thing is. It needs to be managed properly so that it doesn't get out of hand and to ensure that everybody remains focused on getting the right thing as an end result. But if that is in place, that creative tension and friction can be very stimulating.
RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
Nowadays, with the invention of the US News and World Report ranking system, colleges have largely stopped thickening their students skin, opting instead simply to focus on the material. The reason is that USNWR gives colleges higher rankings for student retention and higher rankings for higher GPA. So the best university on the block would drop down to the 15s if their average GPAs were in the 2s and retention was only in the 70s. So everyone's giving a lot more As and Bs now, to compete. Basically, colleges were punished by the independent third party ranking system for thickening their students' skin.
I have mixed feelings about the modern changes in college grading and mindset. On the one hand, I think I benefited professionally from the "skin-thickening" I acquired in undergrad. On the other, I'm not sure the benefit outweighed the overall pain-in-the-ass I endured as an undergrad, and in some ways I'm happy for modern students that their struggles are more reasonable.
Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East - http://www.campbellcivil.com
RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
I'm a very young engineer and I work for a very small company where people are pretty honest with each other. From the responses I read, I find it alarming that the general attitude is "putting up with your bosses", "deal with the A hole"... The ultimate picture is, how do I survive this cruel treatment at work. From what I see here, everyone expects to have bosses and co-workers that give them a hard time. Why should that be the norm?
Since when work becomes dealing with your co-workers and bosses instead of actually producing and make the world turn?
Since I'm young, I want to make a mark from what I do. People playing politics with me are wastes of my time. I walk away from them as needed. You'll say we need that job. we do, but there are more jobs out there, just not many that fit your criteria. We are also afraid of change, so we "thicken our skin" to plow through, as if we are building courage to endure hardship. However, if fact, it is a move of a coward who's afraid to make a change (change of job perhaps? change people's attitudes? Put people in their place so they respect you?)
Take an active role instead of "thicken your skin" so you can endure. Life aren't worth living suffering like that.
RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
There are numerous people in the workforce, greater than 50% I daresay, from my own experience, that are afraid of change (therefore, growth and improvement) and must do what they can to cement their position in the firm. If one is not growing and improving, but must still retain their own good standing, then what is the only course of action? They must tear down and sabotage others. Sounds cynical, but give it a few years and you'll see exactly that.
Meanwhile, don't lose your professional attitude, cover yourself, make sure your work and your successes are well documented (so that you get credit for them)and just be aware that "smiling faces sometimes tell lies", to borrow from an old song.
It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.
RE: How much of a "thick skin" to survive the corporate world?
Given the spectrum of engineers here, one can quite readily imagine a similar distribution for any other category of people, including managers.
TTFN

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