×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Jobs

How to be perfect
15

How to be perfect

How to be perfect

(OP)
Hopefully this subject caught your attention. Yes it is a loaded topic.

I'm a mechanical engineer doing mechanical design of electronics equipment. Mostly fitting PC boards into machined aluminum enclosures. I started working in 2008 for a different company and have been with this one for a little over a year.

We have no mechanical design reviews.

We have no checkers.

We have nobody reviewing my drawings.

My question to you all:

I need to be perfect. How am I supposed to accomplish this task?

Thanks,
FR

RE: How to be perfect

Die and be resurrected.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

RE: How to be perfect

2
Be me.

Seriously, it's hard to see the forest for the trees, especially on a daily basis. If you are basically a one man shop, the best thing to do is set aside your work for a couple of days, then go back and review your work. Chances are you will find your mistakes.

Using 3D CAD? Model as accurately as possible, section everything and check for sky scrapper issues between components and housing.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies to make the best use of these Forums?

RE: How to be perfect

Definitely agree with MadMango. Always good to have more than one pair of eyes reviewing. If there is only one pair of eyes (yours) then just finish it, let it sit for a few days, then do a final check/review and send it on.

Your Monday morning eyes may have a different perspective than your Friday afternoon eyes.

RE: How to be perfect

7
Ways to approach perfection:

- Never send/submit your work product right away. Even if you work late into the night, especially if you work late into the night, get the package ready, clean your desk, and get a good night's sleep. Review your work in the morning. You will find plenty of little things not worth bothering to fix (but do bother to fix them). ... and occasionally, you will find a serious brain fart that you have given yourself the opportunity to correct before it embarrasses you.

- Explain what you've done to your wife/hubby/S.O./cat/dog. Even if they don't understand any of it, the process of explaining tends to help _you_ understand what you've done. When their eyes glaze over, you have to explain better.

- Make a nice big print of your plan. Tape it to your desk.
Now go around to the other side and study it upside down.
Does it still make sense?
Is anything missing?
Could anything be removed?

- Wander around the manufacturing floor. Talk to the people. Ask them to tell you about the latest screwup from that idiot in the office. Tell them you are that idiot, and that you are trying to learn. ... from them. ... and that no, you are not willing to share your paycheck with them, but part of your mission is to make their working life a little easier.

- Now that you've got friends on the floor, use them to review your work. Show them sketches of stuff you're proposing to do, and ask them for suggestions of how to do it better. Make sure the sketches include a few obvious boners, to help you sort the real friends from the sycophants.






Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: How to be perfect

Mango took my line, "Be me."

Mike's second bullet is my method. I often work alone. Just the act of explaining what I did and why to another person is a great way to find flaws in my original thinking. The other person is usually my wife or one of my children, none of whom are engineers. I have also sat outside and made the explanation aloud to someone who isn't there. I make up questions that the ghost-person might ask and say them aloud. I've been caught having those fantasy conversations a few times. Fortunately the psychiatrist down the street hasn't busted me.

Mike, I like the upside-down thing too. LPS

Best to you,

Goober Dave

Haven't see the forum policies? Do so now: Forum Policies

RE: How to be perfect

MM & MikeH bring up some pretty good stuff.

Certainly for me printing it out helps - I almost always find things when printed out that I miss on the screen.

Also being methodical in your checking - I typically check the notes, then the overall/out line dimensions, then size & location of all the other features etc. I tick things off on the hard copy as I go - yellow is keep the same, red is change/delete and I use blue if I make any comments or calculations or non mandatory changes (I use these colors on other folks work too and I believer they're fairly typical).

Trying to be perfect is pretty much unrealistic - however, being good enough is the important thing. (Sadly 'good enough' is sometimes debatable - from a documentation point of view my definition of good enough is pretty close to a lot of peoples perfect.)

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: How to be perfect

"I need to be perfect. How am I supposed to accomplish this task?"

Well, that's a problem right there; you can't be "perfect." And no one expects that.

>> That said, there are things you can do to minimize errors and omissions, like making and USING checklists. Even hospitals are now using checklists to make sure that the right patient is in the right operating room and the correct side of the patient is identified for surgery. Stories abound about patients Magic marking, "this arm to be operated on."

> Lessons learned. Keep track of errors, write them down, and identify and implement a policy or procedure or checklist item that would have caught that error. This is all part of "continuous process improvement" processes. This is particularly critical if it's some particular process that you don't do very often.

> Hold "peer reviews" if design reviews are not used. See if your company will pay for a couple of Costco pizzas for lunch time "mini" design reviews. Oddly, even free Costco pizzas will incentivize engineers.

TTFN
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers

RE: How to be perfect

I would add to Mike's list the concept that over time you will come to learn what to watch-out for and that while the idea that "Practice makes Perfect" may be too much to expect, "Practice" can make you much better at what you do as long as you've been learning from whatever missteps you've uncovered and corrected along the way. And while having a 'perfect' design may seem like the ultimate goal, the truth is, as has been pointed-out already, that in reality 'good enough' is often just that, GOOD ENOUGH. The difference between 'good enough' and 'perfect' can be something which is way more expensive in both time and talent than what it's worth. It's like the designer working with the expected manufacturing tolerances in mind when deciding the size and shape that something needs to be to work so as to give the desired results. After all, if the shopfloor could be counted on to produce parts EXACTLY as dimensioned/specified then he could make everything fit the first time without having to make any compromises in his design. If he was 'Perfect' and everyone what 'Perfect' as well, what could possibly go wrong?

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

RE: How to be perfect

(OP)
Thank you everyone for the tips. I will do my best to implement some of your suggestions.

I feel that a large percentage of these mistakes that occur at my small company could be prevented if ANYONE else looked at the design/drawing/schematic/diagram. There are 2-3 excellent engineers here, but they have no interest in working as a team. Is this typical? It was not at my last company.

My supervisor does not allow individuals to schedule our own design reviews, claiming that everyone is "too busy". He is a fine engineer, but in my opinion, has no idea how to run a department. (As proof: his fellow "directors" continually complain about him to me.)

RE: How to be perfect

If your work is repetitive in nature, "Mostly fitting PC boards into machined aluminum enclosures" then you may be able to develop a standard formula for the solution.

Otherwise, do your best as apparently it's "good enough" from the corporate view, as they don't seem to have any motivation to change.

RE: How to be perfect

I'm not a huge fan of simplistic check lists for looking over drawings - either too much stuff gets left off the check list or it becomes ridiculously long but here's something for starters:

http://www.cad-portal.com/articles/art_details.php...

Having no real cooperation is a bit unusual, not making time for any kind of in depth design review and certainly drawing checking is all too common IMO.

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: How to be perfect

A formal "design review" is, IMHO, largely a waste of time, mostly because the wrong people come, and talk about the wrong things, and the primary information exchanges happen between only two people at a time, so having more than two people present wastes at least some of everyone's time.

I am in favor of informal peer reviews, as in helping your neighbor by spending a few minutes looking over his/her shoulder, or just discussing issues over lunch. If your peers won't do even that much for you, there must be a reason, and you need to figure out what it is Real Soon Now.


Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: How to be perfect

Forget perfection!

You are required to meet a "standard of care". That does not include perfection...only that you achieve what other engineers practicing in the same discipline, in the same area, under similar conditions would be expected to do.

Perfection is undefined and nebulous...don't go there.

RE: How to be perfect

Do you have a mentor, who could run through things quickly with you? Check if ASME or your country's version has a mentoring program. Some retired engineer somewhere may be super bored and looking for fun things to do, ie reviewing your drawings.

RE: How to be perfect

I'm in there with slta. Professional societies can be like an in-person version of eng-tips.

KENAT, thanks for the resource!

Best to you,

Goober Dave

Haven't see the forum policies? Do so now: Forum Policies

RE: How to be perfect

Several have said it before, but I will reiterate. Do the design. St it aside for a few days, then come back to it and go over it. This is when I find where I might have overlooked something or took a less than optimum approach (kinder, gentler language for 'screwed up').

I like the idea of explaining your design to somebody else, even if it is outside their area of expertise. If you're explaining in a structured and logical manner, you very well could approach problem areas from a different vantage, finding things that could be added or improved.

old field guy

RE: How to be perfect

You can not have perfect work. If the company has decided to release work without a review then they should have decided to accept the liability.

RE: How to be perfect

In a perfect world, Kwan, you would be correct.

Best to you,

Goober Dave

Haven't see the forum policies? Do so now: Forum Policies

RE: How to be perfect

Exactly Dave! But it's not perfect and I'd bet that the company doesn't have a clue.
I almost added the following to my last post, "HAHAHA, right!".

RE: How to be perfect

Watch Friday Night Lights, the Movie - The coach, plyed by Bille Bob Thorton, gave the best explanation of perfection ever uttered. I was tearing up. Based on true story. Writer was genious - or Coach.

Not exactly whay you need but if you think deep, it actually is. Do the best you can and give in=t 100% and if that isn't enough to look to yout=r employer in the eye and tell him to find someoe perfrct.

I would write up a ist of requirements in order to to th ejob as close to perforct as humand=na are capable of and set up a meting and explian yoor position. There are plenty of jobs out there. I would find another.

- CJ

RE: How to be perfect

I'm retired Navy. My mantra is "I spent my first career wondering what idiot designed this. Now I'm the idiot." Point being, I place a lot of value on the input of the users. You'd be amazed how quick the people on the shop floor can point out some areas for improvement that you just can't see from your side. P.S. - donuts are to shop workers like pizza is to engineers.

RE: How to be perfect

Mike McCann hit the nail right on the head.

You can't be perfect and you need to realize it but you still have to think you can achieve perfection. Otherwise, everything you do will go to $#!+.

Life is paradox.

RE: How to be perfect

When you realize a blunder, immediately correct it.

RE: How to be perfect

Practice can reinforce bad behaviour or it can lead to improvement.

The difference between bad practice and good practice is proper FEEDBACK.

The best kind of feed back is not from other designers, but from people who implement and use your designs. TheBlacksmith has it nailed as far as I'm concerned. You wouldn't believe just how much people who implement and use your designs are willing to help you do your job better if you only have the humility to ask, listen and learn- and of course the wisdom to discern the good advice/feedback from the bad.

Input/review from other designers is helpful too- particularly the checking part, as they'll help you find errors that your brain can gloss right over after you've seen a drawing too many times. But as far as improving your design goes, review by other designers is only truly helpful if they too have received the sort of useful feedback noted above. Otherwise, they may transmit absolute bullsh*t to you with absolute authority, and some of that may stick.

RE: How to be perfect

2
Being perfect and never making any "show stopper" mistakes are different things, and I think we are really talking about the latter. If your components fit in the enclosure every time, then you have "perfect results."

You may have been able to reduce cost by 0.1% if you spent another 10 hours on the design, but if that is not asked of you then it is not required. There is a balance between perfect RESULTS, and efficiency.

The time required to literally achieve perfection has such diminishing returns, if you tried then your efficiency would plummet and your performance would not be acceptable. Nobody, in any market or business relationship, is ever prepared to pay for perfection.

RE: How to be perfect

In the movie, perfect was being able to look you fellow players in the eye and tell them you did everything possible within your abilities with love in you heart. As far as an employer goes, you give them you best, as if it was your company and if that isn't sufficient and they aren't willing to train you then start looking for other jobs. Continue to work hard. A professional compnay would never treat you this way. Don't settle for misery. Prepare you resume like it isd the most improtant document you ever wrote and continue to improve it. Also work on list of references. These will serve you will in you job search.

Go to LinkedIn and you can bypass recruiters which makes you a less expensive hire. Also contact recruiters who can help you find exactly what you are looking for. They don't get paid unless they find you an employer and the employer pays. You aren't out anything.

CJ

- CJ

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources