×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Jobs

fuselage parts

fuselage parts

fuselage parts

(OP)
I have a client who needs to perform bird strike testing. We did design work for them and now we are going to help them coordinate the bird strike test. Where do you buy fuselage parts for testing? I am in need of an A320 fuselage.

RE: fuselage parts

sorry, but why do you need a fuselage ? for bird strike ?? a wing, yes; and empennage, yes;

i'd talk to airbus (to find out who's scrapping hulls), or google "used airbus parts"

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

RE: fuselage parts

aceantennagirl ... additional bird strike testing for an already tested acft?

Airbus should be able to advise where their bird-test facilities/cockpits/vendors are located.

Most transparancy/windshield manufacturers will have [or know where to go for] cockpits used in birdstrike tests. Find out wwhich company makes AirBuss A320 windshields.

NOTE. IF You are testing new windows/windshields and/or heaters these vendors may clam-up. IF installing new antennas or sensors [IR,UV, low-light, mircrowave, etc] on the cockpit or nose, then probably no problem with any of the transparency vendors cooperating.

----------------------------------------
rb1957 ... The Red Green Show ?? (wink)

Regards, Wil Taylor

Trust - But Verify!

We believe to be true what we prefer to be true.

For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible.

RE: fuselage parts

reading the OP's handle, maybe they're doing birdstrike on an antenna ?

@will, "if the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy" ... i guess i'm 0-2 ?

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

RE: fuselage parts

RB...

My take on this...

"If You're not young/good looking, then at least try to be memorable"

Regards, Wil Taylor

Trust - But Verify!

We believe to be true what we prefer to be true.

For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible.

RE: fuselage parts

getting back on track ... if you are doing a birdstrike on an antenna, it should be sufficient to fab up something similar to the A320 fuselage, without getting a piece from scrap. mind you, a scrap piece might be cheaper/easier ...

must be a big antenna if you're worried about bird strike ?

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

RE: fuselage parts

Often windshields have much greater birdstrike resistance than surrounding cockpit metal structure, for obvious reasons.

There have been many cases where large birds penetrated the nose skins/substructure, or pressure bulkhead [after penetrating the radome and radar]... and the crew gets showered with "soft/foamy/feathery" debris.

I would imagine that hail and lightning strikes could also be a significant problem.

Regards, Wil Taylor

Trust - But Verify!

We believe to be true what we prefer to be true.

For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible.

RE: fuselage parts

(OP)
Thanks for all of your help and suggestions. It is for an antenna under a "large" radome on the top of the fuselage. An actual fuselage piece would be a much better choice and probably cheaper in the long run if I can find one.

RE: fuselage parts

I think there's a "graveyard" out in Mojave California.

"On the human scale, the laws of Newtonian Physics are non-negotiable"

RE: fuselage parts

In general the upper fuselage, past the cockpit crown, is rarely [if ever] struck by birds.

Reason for this is simple: acft fly at +body-angle of attack [nose up] at low altitudes, low airspeeds, so that the crown areas are "shaded" from bird strikes by the cockpit.

low altitudes = typical range for large birds.
Low air speeds = Typical operation environments at low altitude controlled airspace

Upper crown strikes could only occur at low altitudes, high airspeeds, when body angle of attack is "0" or below (-)0 [nose down].

An example of this might be the Navy P-8 [based on 737]: aircraft is flown at low level and relatively high airspeeds over the ocean during it's maritime surveillance mission.

Obviously lower body [belly] installations are more vulnerable that upper crown installations [except lightning and hail].

Has this aspect been discussed/evaluated with Your client?

Regards, Wil Taylor

Trust - But Verify!

We believe to be true what we prefer to be true.

For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible.

RE: fuselage parts

will, the question regards birdstrike on the radome, the fuselage is "only" a test fixture. radomes on the upper fuselage are more problematic than those on the lower fuse (which can be said to "depart the airplane without jeopardising continued safe flight") ... if an upper radome "departs the airplane" it could easily impact the empennage, wih dire consequences.

i'd suggest designing a blow-out panel to prevent over-pressurisation of the radome if/when punctured by a bird

pls, let me know when you do the test ! or at least post video !!

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

RE: fuselage parts

Just remember to thaw the bird first (if recieved frozen). winky smile

“Know the rules well, so you can break them effectively.”
-Dalai Lama XIV

RE: fuselage parts

KENAT,
We have an A320 fwd fuselage and I'm pretty sure that's where we got it.

"On the human scale, the laws of Newtonian Physics are non-negotiable"

RE: fuselage parts

RB1957..

Improper installation/mod, mechanical [hail, maintenance stand, etc], corrosion, fatigue or lightning damage would be 99.9999% reasons for crown antenna/radome damage/failures.

Bird strike? Doubtful: unless there is an aspect exposed in typical flight attitudes where birds could be realistically encountered, such as far forward, high crown. A tall blade could be an exception.

Ice-shedding, hail strikes, corona arcing, etc at cruise attitudes are more likely than bird strikes.

In this case keep the quail frozen wink...

Regards, Wil Taylor

Trust - But Verify!

We believe to be true what we prefer to be true.

For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible.

RE: fuselage parts

birdstrike is significant below 8,000', ie take-off and landing (not cruise).

it might well not be likely, ice acreation and (possibly more imporant) ice shedding are other concerns, but you need to have an answer when they ask "and what happens if a bird strike happens ? how do you demonstrate compliance with 25.571e(1) ?" saying "it shouldn't happen" won't get you far.

i'm curious that this is for "an antenna under a "large" radome" ? is the concern that the bird will puncture the radome, and then impact the antenna with sufficent force to damage the fuselage under the antenna ? that sounds a little far fetched to me (possibly "extremely improbable") ... and Very hard to show on test; you need to get the bird to hit the antenna ? i know some bird strike tests show unexpected results ... once, firing a bird at a wing/fueslage fairing, the damned thing punctured the fairing (as expected) but then broke a small fuel pipe buried under some structure (for protection !) .... i reckon you can never predic where the bird will go, except that it'll go where you don't want to !

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

RE: fuselage parts

(OP)
Improbable or not - sometimes logic and engineering analysis and long flight history with no incidents aren't enough - and that is what we are facing. So - we are preparing for the test. Who was the contact in the Mojave desert?

RE: fuselage parts

i agree, but you are assessing an antenna inside a radome ? so you need the bird to impact the antenna after penetrating the radome ??

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

RE: fuselage parts

(OP)
We are hoping the bird doesn't penetrate the radome or sheer it off.

I tried boneyard2u - he doesn't tear down the airframes so he doesn't have it. Keep trying!

RE: fuselage parts

"We are hoping ..." if you've designed the radome and attachments without birdstrike, then i'd bet it will penetrate the radome or damage the fuselage attmt. penetrating the radome isn't necessarily the end of the world ... adding a blow-out panel will limit the aerodynamic ram pressure inside the radome. damagint the fuselage attmt would be a bigger problem ... you don't want the fuselage to decompress as a result of birdstrike (on the radome).

instead of testing, i'd've thought you'd get some milage from a NL FEA ?

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

RE: fuselage parts

US Airways has something they are trying to give away. Can't recall now if was an Airbus or a Boeing.

NW used to tear down their old aircraft at Laurinburg, NC airport. Don't know if that operation still exists after the merger with Delta.

RE: fuselage parts

About 3 or 4 years ago Amercan airlines had a bunch of A300-660s parked in Roswell New Mexico.
Does it have to be an A320?
B.E.

RE: fuselage parts

Try Scroggins Aviation www.scrogginsaviation.com. He has an A320 fuselage out in Mojave. The one we have we got from a boneyard in Greenwood MS. The contact info is below:

Todd Bradley
Site Operations Manager
Airport Road Building 600
Greenwood Ms.
38930
662-455-1826 Office
662-466-3427 Mobile

"On the human scale, the laws of Newtonian Physics are non-negotiable"

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources