'High energy'' lines
'High energy'' lines
(OP)
We are currently looking at penetrations of pipework through concrete walls and how to do the sealing. As there are a few different designs for the penetrations it shouold be decided which are high energy lines. The pipe work we have are the following:
Cryogenic stainless steel
cooling water (temp difference from 34 deg c to 70 deg c) stainless steel
vacuum stainless steel
Which ones of these would you consider high energy?
Cryogenic stainless steel
cooling water (temp difference from 34 deg c to 70 deg c) stainless steel
vacuum stainless steel
Which ones of these would you consider high energy?





RE: 'High energy'' lines
RE: 'High energy'' lines
High energy related to what low/normal energy? At what 'norm', regulations or customary practise? Energy as by temperature expansion/differences, pipeline sizes and material, or mechanical from machinery or other?
Sorry, started speculating, but if not stated in any regulation, we will have to revert to the old-time 'general' standard: 'as 'best used normally customary practise in the branch.'
RE: 'High energy'' lines
The vacuum is zero pressure obviously and the cryogenic goes down to near absolute zero.
Are any of these high energy lines?
RE: 'High energy'' lines
RE: 'High energy'' lines
For example
Voltages over 120 volts.
AC or DC Amps over 30 amps.
Pressures over 150 psig for non-explosive gases.
Highly Flammable or explosive fluids or gasses over 40 - 60 psig.
Deadly chemicals or gasses at any pressure.
RE: 'High energy'' lines
Ref. your most recent post.
You would need an expansion bellows at a penetration only if there were significant movement imposed that could not be abosrbed otherwise, by for instance a local loop. It suggests that 'high energy' is in this context is thermal energy ... i.e. a hot or very cold line.
RE: 'High energy'' lines
Does cryogenic cause as much contraction in a pipe that steam does expansion?
RE: 'High energy'' lines
RE: 'High energy'' lines
RE: 'High energy'' lines
It's about the difference in temperatures from the installed temperature. -80C is going to cause roughly the same change in dimensions from a 20C reference point as would +120C. But you can only go so low, whereas steam at 575C is not uncommon.
Although... I did read an article recently that reported some researchers claimed to have gone below "absolute" zero.
http://www.livescience.com/25959-atoms-colder-than...
Neutrinos go faster than light and something can be colder than 0K. We are not as smart as we think we are.
- Steve Perry
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RE: 'High energy'' lines
All postings above are based on your original question regarding energy.
I agree with cvg in that risk also should be considered, and also size. If you are unsure of consequences of concrete casting around pipeline, what about looking at the question from a practical building solution side?
Possible solution: Penetrate (bore or cast) the concrete wall with somewhat oversized holes for the pipilines. Protect the wall material with tubing pieces fitting outer diameter of holes. Draw the fluid pipelines through and isolate between fluid pipeline and outer tube, and outer tube and wall, for instance with expanding foam isolation.
Extra cost is relatively low, and wall protecting tubes could be low-cost material.
Advantages:
Fluid piping isolated from wall, expansion and contractions will go against elastic isolation, replacement of pipeline through wall easy, expansion loops, joints etc placed if necessary before or after wall, wall protected from condensation or leakage from fluid pipeline.