New Engine Break-In
New Engine Break-In
(OP)
Hi all,
I'm a long time reader, but post very infrequently. Looking for a little advice. I recently purchased a 2012 Acura TSX Sport Wagon...currently ~70 miles on the car.
I have questions about break in technique and duration as well as engine oils and change intervals. The engine is a 2.4L I4 i-Vtec.
What is the proper engine break-in technique on modern engines? With 70 miles already on the car, is it safe to say that the rings have already seated? Is there any point to additiona periods of high-gear, high-load operation to continue to seat rings? Should I make efforts to vary RPM throughout range? Should I limit max RPM for any period of time? Any input on this topic would be appreciated.
Owner's Manual calls for 0W-20 oil that's API approved. Am I to assume that the oil in the car now is synthetic if it's a 0W-20? I'm not aware of 0W conventional oils?
OCI's are 10K miles as per the on-board computer. This seems extraordinarily long, especially for the first oil change. (Makes me think it's got to be synth oil) What are your thoughts on an early oil change once "break-in" is complete?
Thanks in advance!
I'm a long time reader, but post very infrequently. Looking for a little advice. I recently purchased a 2012 Acura TSX Sport Wagon...currently ~70 miles on the car.
I have questions about break in technique and duration as well as engine oils and change intervals. The engine is a 2.4L I4 i-Vtec.
What is the proper engine break-in technique on modern engines? With 70 miles already on the car, is it safe to say that the rings have already seated? Is there any point to additiona periods of high-gear, high-load operation to continue to seat rings? Should I make efforts to vary RPM throughout range? Should I limit max RPM for any period of time? Any input on this topic would be appreciated.
Owner's Manual calls for 0W-20 oil that's API approved. Am I to assume that the oil in the car now is synthetic if it's a 0W-20? I'm not aware of 0W conventional oils?
OCI's are 10K miles as per the on-board computer. This seems extraordinarily long, especially for the first oil change. (Makes me think it's got to be synth oil) What are your thoughts on an early oil change once "break-in" is complete?
Thanks in advance!





RE: New Engine Break-In
If you want to investigate the suitability of a particular change interval for your own driving habits and region, drive approximately the recommended number of miles, then spend $30 on an oil analysis w/TBN (I use Blackstone Labs in Ft Wayne, IN) ... if the analysis says you can put more miles on the oil, go out about 2/3 the remainder of the proposed extended interval and check again. After you get a good figure, scale it back a small amount and keep using the resulting number until you get to about 100k-mi or your habits change (then repeat if you still plan to have the car).
RE: New Engine Break-In
So that's one data point that says 70 miles is not enough, by far, to break in a ring set.
I'd give it a couple thousand miles of 'break-in' driving, per the owner's manual, varying loads and speeds as much as possible, then change the oil and filter to something I trust, like Valvoline full synthetic, and _then_ go 10k on a change. ... or maybe 6k. I have gone 20k on full synthetic, and I think that was a bit too far.
Some of the racers around here might say to change the oil and filter at a couple hundred miles just to get the manufacturing crud out, and I won't say they're wrong.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: New Engine Break-In
Seems like the break-in technique is the same as I'm used to - wide variety of engine speeds and loads for the first thousand miles or two.
Still some concern over the first OCI...
I've read all about Blackstone's capabilities and do intend to use their services once I get through the break in period. My concern with using blackstone analyses now is that I would expect to see relatively "high" wear during the break in period (high metallic content) and I'm unsure if this would break down the additive package more quickly than an engine that was past its break-in period? What are the key contributors to additive deterioration?
Mike - I agree with your statement about assembly & mfg lubes and there affect on the first oil change interval. A few hundred miles seems excessive...but 10K for the first oil change seems insanely long?!
RE: New Engine Break-In
RE: New Engine Break-In
RE: New Engine Break-In
Personally, I like frequent oil changes. On my motorbikes I change the oil every 1k miles even though the manual says 500miles, then 2k, then every 4k after that. Mainly because it is so cheap to do and I get to check the oil myself (visually) and other parts for any damage or anything else amiss.
However, if I was in a new car, I would just follow the manufacturers guidelines. No point trying to beat them at their own game.
RE: New Engine Break-In
RE: New Engine Break-In
Interesting article: http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
RE: New Engine Break-In
I suspected that modern OEM engine plants had incorporated some type of run-in & testing procedures to ensure good ring sealing...etc. I like the notion that OEMs are doing a drain and re-fill after initial run-in...makes me feel more comfortable with a longer first OCI.
Moon - thanks for the break-in secrets. This is the first "new" engine for me as well.
I will probably perform the first oil change around 5k miles just for my own sanity. Then switch over to my "usual" synthetic oil then start blackstone analyses and follow the manufacturer's OCI.
Thanks guys.
RE: New Engine Break-In
If you're just following the OCI, there is probably little value in the analysis (unless you're unsure about whether your driving counts as "severe" and want a counter-argument vs the dealer salesperson who insists everybody on the road is driving under "severe" conditions - that's happened to me a couple of times)
RE: New Engine Break-In
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: New Engine Break-In
Waaaaaay back when I was a piston/ring/liner engineer, one of the most challenging design conditions for the piston-pin interface in certain engines was the initial factory break-in test cycle. If they lived through the first two minutes, they'd almost certainly make it to overhaul.
RE: New Engine Break-In
"If they lived through the first two minutes, they'd almost certainly make it to overhaul."
What was the fate of the ones that didn't make it/
Scuffed rings/cylinders?
thanks
Dan T
RE: New Engine Break-In
My guess is still overhaul, just that it wqould be done to an engine 2 min old.
Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &
http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm
for site rules
RE: New Engine Break-In
RE: New Engine Break-In
How often did this happen % wise?
RE: New Engine Break-In
RE: New Engine Break-In
I'm guessing those diesel engines had "full floating" wrist pins and bushed con rods?
I do not know what arrangement the OP's Acura uses, or how piston temp tracks coolant and oil temps.
I think spark ignition engine pin scuffing and seizures can sometimes be induced by wailing on an engine before it is fully warmed up. Pins press fitted in the rod (so they always must oscillate in the piston), running with the typical quiet near zero/few tenths stock pin-to-piston clearance seem more vulnerable. In "Power Secrets" Smokey suggested a full 0.0015 inch (diametral) clearance between pin and piston when running press fitted pins in an endurance racing engine. I don't picture a thoroughly broken in stock engine having piston/pin clearance even approaching 0.0005 inch.
RE: New Engine Break-In
I've worked w/SI engine pistons as well, and the fit can certainly get very tight (skirt to bore) if you apply full load immediately after startup. In passenger cars it seems to give a modest increase in wear for a little while - typically not scuffing. There are probably some engines out there that fare much worse (air cooled ones w/Al pistons?). I don't recall what the situation is like at the pin joint. The piston itself warms up pretty quickly when load comes on, which tends to increase clearance.
RE: New Engine Break-In
I have eyed the TSX SW as potential replacement for my aging V70- just wish they featured turbo and/or GDI to make it a little more mechanically sexy.
RE: New Engine Break-In
I absolutely agree with you about the engine options (or lack there of) for the Sport Wagon. A turbo/GDI engine option would have been great! Even the V6 they offer in the sedan version would have been sufficient! My last car was a B6 Audi S4 (40v 4.2L v8) so I've definitely missed low end torque (and the exhaust note!)
RE: New Engine Break-In
Years ago, I was involved with the marketing and repairs of Spanish two-stroke dirt bikes. At one of the service clinics put on by the the USA distributor in California, the advice was:
1. Use OEM forged Mahle pistons with piston/cylinder clearance on the tight side of specs
2. Lightly lube main bearings, big & small end needle bearing, wrist pin.
3. Install dry piston and rings into dry cylinder.
4. Start engine and by the time the engine is warm, it is ready to race.
I did this for many engines where I had the opportunity to inspect the cylinders & rings for wear after a number of races. If the engine's carburetor was jetted properly, there would be no galling on the piston or cylinder. Seems like it only took a few seconds for the cylinder walls to be wetted with oil.
RE: New Engine Break-In
Your OP surely invites anecdote and opinion, and here is mine:
Opinion: There are numerous break-in and OCI methodologies that have proven successful for numerous people.
Anecdote:
1. I bought a Honda Civic new in 2002 with about 40 miles on it.
2. I changed the oil immediately (ok, we all have some quirks, and mine is trusting others) to Mobil 1 0W-20. I installed a Mobil 1 filter.
3. I changed the oil again at 2000 miles, at 5000 miles, and at 10,000 miles.
4. I have changed the oil every 10,000 miles (always Mobil 1 0W-20 and Mobil 1 filter).
5. The car now has 270,000 miles. (A lot of those miles are easy freeway miles, as the roughly 27k miles/year would suggest).
6. The car has not ever required additional oil added during oil change interval, even though it only has 3.5 liter sump.
7. Engine currently gets great fuel mileage (about 40 mph) and has very nicely matched warm cranking cylinder pressure numbers.
8. Although Honda is very good at reducing variation engine-to-engine, I still believe that I got a good one.
9. And I never, ever, ever tromp on it until the engine is operating at thermostat temp (well, almost never).
10. My break-in driving was about 2000 miles, but I just did the standard stuff mentioned in other responses.
11. And I kinda drive this car like an old lady, as indicated by the fact that I am still using the original clutch.
12. The only work that I have ever done (to the engine) has been to change the cam timing belt twice and adjust the valve lash each time. No other mechanic has ever touched the car. (ref note 2).
Dick
RE: New Engine Break-In
Yes, I was looking for a little of both...it's always nice to get some anecdote along with the facts!
I too distrust anyone in the automotive service and repair space...and when possible/economical I perform all my own work as well.
In fact, a few years ago I rebuilt a 5.0L SBF roller cam engine for a mustang I had. I reused the block (bored, line honed...etc) and crank (turned down, balanced...etc) but most everything else was new and improved. I performed oil changes at similar intervals as you indicated above...making the change to Mobil 1 "synthetic" after the first oil change. The motor made GREAT power and never burned a drop of oil...in fact that motor outlasted the car. It's still sitting on an engine stand in my garage.
I felt like there were enough differences between my pushrod V8 SBF and "modern" japanese engines to warrant discussion. I'll continue the break-in driving techniques for a thousand miles or so...then drive like normal. I will probably change the oil between 3-5K depending on what I learn about the oil that's in the car right now.
RE: New Engine Break-In
The best most efficient procedure depends largely on metals used in various parts and on precision of machining re fit and surface finish. Because of a large number of variables there are a large number of correct procedures and an even larger number of opinions based on it worked before. Some opinions are based on it worked on engines built to standards typical of 80 to 100 years ago when bearings where hand scraped for instance and high rpm was 3000.
This has been covered in detail several times before. A search should show previous threads.
Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &
http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm
for site rules
RE: New Engine Break-In
Brian,
RE: New Engine Break-In
First rule DONT baby it, idle it for long periods or free rev it lots, second rule dont use synthetic oil, third rule disregard what any user manual says! thay are written for litigation and safety purposes and go directly against whats best for a new engine. I mean what do you thing would happen if the manual said take your new sports car or high powered road bike out and immediately use full throttle! Luckily as mentioned above most cars face at least part of the following procedure at the factory.
1. First half hour high idle keep an eye on the temp, check the timing etc, vary the reves occasionally, this runs in the cam and settles the bearings.
2. Next go driving for an hour or so with lots of gentle rolls onto hi load using long pulls in a high gear, start gently but quickly increase the load until you are doing full throttle pulls but keep the reves down, obviously keep the engine in its comfort zone dont lug it down too low. This is probably the most important step it starts the ring sealing process. otherwise the bore can glaze and it will never seal really well if the loads are not high enough.
3. Next keep the hi load pulls going but now increase the maximum revs slowly until the engine is reaching redline, do this for another half hour to an hour.
4. Change the oil and drive how the engine is going to be driven for the rest of its life, soft or hard and it will last for many years or many races
RE: New Engine Break-In
I have been privileged to work with some pretty talented drag race engine builders and have seen personally a piston and ring set out of an engine that was broke in per mfg. suggestion and a brake in on a dyno with some hard pulls. The carbon never made it past the top ring on the dyno pull, but was way down the piston on the standard break in.
I don't know anything but the people that do.
RE: New Engine Break-In
RE: New Engine Break-In
re May 9 "the carbon never made it etc" what did I miss ? "but was way down the piston on the std break in" ?
have rebuilt F1 engines from F1 1500 Alfa Romeo, coventry climax 2 liter, ford dfv and bda and bdg including 350 chev and ford
been around a lot of hi perf engines
RE: New Engine Break-In
this piston is quite clean below the top ring ( despite having a broken land)
http://members.modernvespa.net/ljclark/uploads/130...
one piston in this picture has deposits (carbon) below the top ring.
http://www.mototuneusa.com/BreakInF3Pistons.jpg