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when your boss asks you to review something...
4

when your boss asks you to review something...

when your boss asks you to review something...

(OP)
When your boss asks you to review something, eg. a note, ment for in-house public, about something technical or about the implementation of new procedures, do you...
a) read the whole thing, check any calcs/prices/ technical stuff,
b) also check for contents (making sure he doesn't spread information that is incorrect or not realistic to be followed)
c) also check his spelling/grammar/punctuation/capitals?

My boss, also an engineer, has asked me again to review a document before spreading it.
While the technical side is OK, it contains some spelling/grammar errors.

Last time he asked me to review something, I gave him a reviewed word-doc in which some punctuation marks were corrected, some missing words were filled in (probably forgotten by typing too rapid), ...
but the document that was spread was his original doc.

The exactly same thing happens right now again.
I don't want to come over as a know-it-all, yet I'm trying to do my work as good as possible, so I review a+b+c from above.
I'm no greenhorn either, I know what to do and my position in the firm, yet he's still the one paying my check every month (so there's no reason to piss him off, which happens easily).

any suggestions or situations you want to share?

RE: when your boss asks you to review something...

I would continue doing exactly what you are doing. When he no longer wants you to check things, he will stop asking. Otherwise, it appears that your efforts add value to his efforts and he realizes it.

RE: when your boss asks you to review something...

I've had two bosses who are not native English speakers. I reviewed each of their memoranda for the same three points you do. Sometimes they use my edit, sometimes not. Often they want to preserve their 'feel' to the memo, and they tell me that the more 'foreign' the message implies a higher level of emotion on their part.

We always use a second set of eyes for communications going to a customer.

RE: when your boss asks you to review something...

If he catches you not correcting his grammar and punctuation, he will feel like you are patronizing him. Much worse than turning they're into their.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

"Belief" is the acceptance of an hypotheses in the absence of data.
"Prejudice" is having an opinion not supported by the preponderance of the data.
"Knowledge" is only found through the accumulation and analysis of data.

RE: when your boss asks you to review something...

Continue to correct & modify, but let him know about it softly / unjudgingly using phrases such as "I took the liberty to change this..." or "You may want to consider rewriting this sentence like this because it flows better" and so on. It is the rare duck of an engineer who survived an engineering curriculum who also has a strong command of the English language and is a good communicator.

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering
www.bluetechnik.com

RE: when your boss asks you to review something...

(OP)
Thanks for your comments. Apparently I'm on the right track.

@Tygerdawg, you can happily leave out "english" in your last sentence, it's a universal thing...

I still am wondering why he didn't used my corrected document last time, but that shouldn't influence my actions about correcting a+b+c this paper, this time.

RE: when your boss asks you to review something...

I am surprised I didn't see anyone suggest the simplest approach - ask him what he wants you to check for and what to ignore. Hey, we all make typos! I am the world's worst! I firmly believe in a separate set of eyes or at least a night's sleep before review to send out anything of significance.

RE: when your boss asks you to review something...

kingnero:

As to why about the last time, he probably got ribbed by a client or jurisdiction for is last effort and doesn't want that embarrasment to happen again.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
http://mmcengineering.tripod.com

RE: when your boss asks you to review something...

office vp recently gave a presentation of a new project to the staff. one of the clerical staff pointed out that the project name was mispelled on the opening slide. there was lots of laughter, and then it came out the presentation had already been given several times. too bad somebody didn't proof the spelling on that one.

RE: when your boss asks you to review something...

Not sure what you mean by reviewed word document - did you just make the changes or indicate them with track changes?

Did they definitely know there were corrections in the version you gave to them?

How about printing a hard copy and actually red lining it?

Like jboggs says, can you not ask for some clarification?

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: when your boss asks you to review something...

The way I look at reviewing the work of others is that I am paid to be an engineer and not an English teacher. Same thing with checking drawings. I am not a checker nor do I want to be one. I don't count quantites of parts on bills of materials or make sure the balloon callouts on assembly drawings match the BOM line items or that a part is fully dimensioned. That is what checkers are for. I check documents for technical accuracy and engineering content. If I happen to check a typo or obvious grammar error I point it out, but I don't go out of my way to look for them.

RE: when your boss asks you to review something...

I check all of the above, and it has saved my hide on a number of occasions. It's amazing just how often the "Let's eat, Grandma" vs. "Let's eat Grandma" syndrome can haunt specifications/technical documents.

RE: when your boss asks you to review something...

Congratulations spongebob, you must be at one of the few companies remaining that are burdened with overhead. I hope you have a monopoly.

RE: when your boss asks you to review something...

Ask your boss what he wants from you. My review of a 30% document is very different than a 90% document.

Also, check that Word-track changes is the way he wants them fixed. Merging tracked changes back into the original document can be a touch tricky, so you boss might need a bit of training.

RE: when your boss asks you to review something...

Maybe I'm just being obtuse but I don't understand the replies to spongebob. How is a checker overhead? And how is paying an engineer to count fasteners and make sure section cuts are referenced on the page they say they are efficient and cost effective? Yes, I will mark up anything I see that is wrong like spelling errors.

RE: when your boss asks you to review something...

My boss has made it clear that he expects all my talents to be used when he asks me to check a memo, letter , or e-mail; technical, grammer, political ... I am glad that he isn't one of those bosses that know it all. As for the comments to Spongebob, apparently his performance agreement or whatever his company calls it doesn't have the "and whatever else management asks" boilerplate.

RE: when your boss asks you to review something...

I was once asked to check a colleagues drawing, I found some errors. They talked their way out of almost all but the dimensional ones then told me off for time wasting and never asked me to check anything again.

Designer of machine tools - user of modified screws

RE: when your boss asks you to review something...

I was asked to make 3D models from a bunch of 2D drawing files, in AutoCAD.
It didn't work; the models were screwed up, because the drawings were screwed up.
I asked the old timer who made the drawings why he didn't use associative dimensioning.
Old timer said it never worked for him, so he had been turning it off, for 20 years.
What he had always turned on, that screwed up the dimensions, was a running object snap of 'near'.
So every nominally intersecting pair of lines on his drawings either crossed or fell short of meeting, by .003" or so.

So I told the boss that I couldn't make 3D models out of SoAndSo's (thousands of) drawings, I would have to construct them from scratch.
... so the boss fired me, saying "You can't make a 3D model; you told me so yourself."
Of course he was looking for an excuse anyway; one day more and he would have had to pay my pimp.


Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: when your boss asks you to review something...

Wow, Mike. That is quite an ending to a story.

king: Look at it this way - you are not solely a subordinate, and he is not solely a superior; it is a hazard to look at it in that manner all the time. You are a team trying to produce quality work so as to obtain more projects (a hopefully fruitful and endless cycle). So, when you work as a team, the sum of the individuals drives the quality of the end product. The last thing you want to do is allow the team (or parts of the team) to get sloppy with grammar, punctuation, sentence structure, etc. In Maryland, the State will turn down proposals based upon poor grammar and spelling.

It is silly to argue that you are only checking the technical nature of the work.

Quote (Spongebob)

If I happen to check a typo or obvious grammar error I point it out, but I don't go out of my way to look for them
Believe it or not - when you read a sentence for technical accuracy your brain can simultaneously check grammar and readability! bigsmile

The quality of your team depends on you being sharp at both. Besides, it will improve your own writing skills.

In Russia building design you!

RE: when your boss asks you to review something...

Mark any corrections you make in RED or some other way so he knows exactly what you did. Correct everything for him, spelling, grammer, etc. but MARK it so he knows. Everyone loves a second set of eyes. Remember, proof reading takes time and most bosses don't have a lot of time. He'd downloading a problem to you so he can focus his attention somewhere else. I do it all the time.

If he thinks that is the best use of your time then help him all you can. He may not want someone without an engineering back ground checking his paper--they can make engineering mistakes that will make the company look bad.

Help him look good and he will help you look good :)

David
:):):)

www.kirkhammotorsports.com

RE: when your boss asks you to review something...

Alright, I see this has made it's way back up after a while, but I don't remember seeing the original comments. So, since it is back on page one, I've got to chime in:

Quote (kingnero)


I gave him a reviewed word-doc in which some punctuation marks were corrected, some missing words were filled in (probably forgotten by typing too rapid), ...
but the document that was spread was his original doc.

Are you sure your boss new there were comments in the file? Are you sure your boss knows how to view those comments when he opens the file? I could very easily see this being a case of getting the file back, finding no changes, and running with it.

Edward L. Klein
Pipe Stress Engineer
Houston, Texas

"All the world is a Spring"

All opinions expressed here are my own and not my company's.

RE: when your boss asks you to review something...

(OP)
Yes, he knew. First time I handed him a paper copy, with remarks in blue (didn't want to use red) on a black/white print out.
He said he prefers "Track changes" in Word. So next time I did, and mentioned it in the mail with which it was sent to him.

Just e few days ago, he asked me again to review a document, so I did (using the "Track changes" feature), and he sent out the reviewed documen. So apparently he has a reason for using the reviewed (or not) document. I guess I'll just leave it at that, and continue doing what I do. Problem is that it takes time that I don't have.

RE: when your boss asks you to review something...

Your manager is interested in your time being utilized effectively. Why don't you ask him to give you some insight on why the documents are sometimes issued without the edits so you can improve the process?

Corrections should always be in red. We're not in grade school any more (if that's where your objection to red are coming from), so don't complicate things with extraneous considerations. Comments are often blue.

When you're wondering what someone is doing, ask! If he says he'd like you to keep taking time to thoroughly proof and edit, that opens the door to a discussion of workload and demands on your time.

RE: when your boss asks you to review something...

Quote (TED7)

I was once asked to check a colleagues drawing, I found some errors. They talked their way out of almost all but the dimensional ones then told me off for time wasting and never asked me to check anything again.

I feel for you.

6 or so months ago I was called by a colleague for an opinion on how to analyse something in a project I was not on. I explained the base concepts and walked out. The next day, I informed him of my intention to independently do the calculation to verify the result, and did so. I got a different result.

Based on what it was out by, I had a good idea of what he had done wrong and asked to see his work to check. He wouldn't show it and instead wanted to go through mine. He said I had used a different method but agreed with the method, and couldn't fault the maths. Did not want to show me his math at that time because he was too busy. His method seemed right too, conceptually.

I re-did the calculation using a different method to check my math again. Came to the same result. Walked into his office and insisted on seeing his math, saying I was sure it was a clerical error and just let me go through it and I would return with it fixed. He reluctantly obliged. I looked through it and found he hadn't made the clerical error I assumed, but instead had used an odd equation.

I went back to his office and asked where he had gotten that equation, to which he pointed me to where he got the equation, but the source was aimed at a clearly different situation. He asked how it was different. I explained. He accepted the change.

None of this annoyed me, other than that he clearly didn't want me going through his analysis which is ridiculous considering he had only known how to do that analysis for one day - since I had taught him the concepts the day before.

What *did* annoy me, was that after he accepted the change, as I was walking out of his office, he stopped me and said something like this:

"Now see, you wasted all morning on the nitpicking, and in the end the difference (he was out by ~50%) won't change anything because it's close enohttp://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=334914u..."

After some back and forth, I signed off by getting on an admittedly high horse for someone as young as me, and gave him a speech a bit like this, (in exasperated tones at this point):

"You can be inaccurate in engineering, as long as you know about it. Then you can apply safety factors. But you didn't even know you were wrong, and you didn't know why for next time. If you're wrong, and you don't know about it, you're going to kill someone".

To which he gave a short grin/laugh of dismissal. I stormed out of his office and spent the next 5 minutes just walking around the companies premises, very nearly if not actually shaking with anger at the attitude, and trying to cool my head.

RE: when your boss asks you to review something...

KN...agree with others. Keep doing a critical review. Your boss has confidence in you that you will do the right thing....that's invaluable. He has the prerogative to take or ignore your advice.

Quote (KingNero)

a note, ment for in-house public,
As you can see, it is easy to make typing mistakes (ment=meant), so he probably places a lower value on the grammar, typos and format than on the technical.

I have been critically reviewing technical reports for over 30 years. I review for technical, grammar, spelling and format. I review for overall presentation and consistency of conclusions and data. I think it is important to be as correct as practicable with any document you produce. I don't always achieve that goal, but I try and I instill in those that I mentor to strive for the same.

Engineering ideas and concepts have little impact if they cannot be presented in a manner that shows the audience that you are attentive to details and can present your ideas in a consistent, logical manner with few or no mistakes. (I will take a point loss for a run-on sentence! lol)

RE: when your boss asks you to review something...

(OP)
being dutch with french as a second language, spelling mistakes in english are easily made. That being said, I do place a rather high value on the aesthetic side (spelling, grammar, lay-out) of notes and such.
Our equivalent to "they're, their and there" kind of mistakes, won't pass my office.
It's not that I am perfect, but a spelling chacker has its merits.

I appreciate everyone's thoughts!

RE: when your boss asks you to review something...

Quote (It's not that I am perfect, but a spelling chacker has its merits.)


Indeed it does. wink

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering
www.bluetechnik.com

RE: when your boss asks you to review something...

I'm a fan of reviewing thoroughly, but tagging proposed changes so the author can tell which ones I think are important

When you make a change, there is always some risk that the Boss was right and you've made a mistake during your review. Your boss is probably going to want to spend a bit of time checking your changes (or at least the significant ones) to guard against this.

If you can flag your corrections as Significant, Material or Editorial, then you're giving the boss the ability to focus "last look" effort on the changes with impact on the organisation's engineering reputation. Whether they do a global accept or a global reject on the Editorial ones won't change much - but if Significant proposals start getting rejected, both you and Boss ought to be taking an interest in why.

A.

RE: when your boss asks you to review something...

I just reviewed a lifting beam calculation where the eccentricity of the pick up points was not included in the calculation. Just considering compression alone, the D/C was around 0.6. Considering interaction of the moment due to the eccentricity and the compression, D/C went up to 1.03 by my independent calculation. The originator of the calculation, an engineer employed by the contractor, huffed and puffed about how nit picky I was being. They had used that lifting beam for years and picked up heavier things that our new chillers. I certainly lost a lot of respect for that engineer.

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