Railroad Bicycle
Railroad Bicycle
(OP)
Hey guys,
Im contemplating making a railroad bike.
What I've found on the net, looks pretty terrible.
My thoughts are to make a bike that performs better than my high end road bike, mainly though lowering the rolling resistance, since I'd eliminate the tires, and rolling on a extremly hard and smooth surface.
What I have seen online used an out rigger and guides to hold the front wheel steady, which almost negates any advantages.
So I found the cross section of a rail road rail, along with some specs:

and the heads vary between 2-1/4" to 2-3/4" in width
So I'm thinking why cant I just make a rim that is either V shaped or simply curved, and it will sit on the rail and self align?
Thus I will have minimal contact points, and lowest rolling resistance? and thats it?
Also should this work, what kind of increase in speed?decrease in resistance or energy output might, I expect to see?
Im contemplating making a railroad bike.
What I've found on the net, looks pretty terrible.
My thoughts are to make a bike that performs better than my high end road bike, mainly though lowering the rolling resistance, since I'd eliminate the tires, and rolling on a extremly hard and smooth surface.
What I have seen online used an out rigger and guides to hold the front wheel steady, which almost negates any advantages.
So I found the cross section of a rail road rail, along with some specs:

and the heads vary between 2-1/4" to 2-3/4" in width
So I'm thinking why cant I just make a rim that is either V shaped or simply curved, and it will sit on the rail and self align?
Thus I will have minimal contact points, and lowest rolling resistance? and thats it?
Also should this work, what kind of increase in speed?decrease in resistance or energy output might, I expect to see?
I'm working on it!





RE: Railroad Bicycle
I would try with a simplified prototype on a real track before going on with a research on optimization.
prex
http://www.xcalcs.com : Online engineering calculations
http://www.megamag.it : Magnetic brakes and launchers for fun rides
http://www.levitans.com : Air bearing pads
RE: Railroad Bicycle
the slope (both rails are canted towards each other at a 1:20 or similar angle) makes it self-centering (if you have a symmetrical loading).
I wouldn't reinvent the wheel (literally), I'd take a good look at railway cars and copy that design (maybe a tad lighter, though).
If you're going the make a bike that rides only one rail, good luck with that, I'd be interesting in seeing your prototype(s)...
RE: Railroad Bicycle
Not after it's been used for a while.
RE: Railroad Bicycle
No matter the vertical loss of material due to wear, the slope remains.
Hence, self centering effect stays.
The flanges on the wheels also keep the trains on the track, so even if you're dealing with extremely worn rails, the cars won't derail.
We regularly use railroad for transport, I can easily provide pictures.
I wonder how the railroads your side of the world look like ???
The self-centering effect is on of the basics (almost) the entire railroad system is based on...
RE: Railroad Bicycle
I suspect this is why you have to "learn" to ride a bicycle. Unconsciously, you learn to make small movements in the handlebars to let you keep your balance.
rp
RE: Railroad Bicycle
I have seen a bike with a stabiliser running on the other track. The forks were not welded in position either, they had a guide running out the front with 2 wheels mounted horizontally either side of the rail much like a roller coaster does, to keep it running true.
Running on one track would be possible but the stresses on the support mechanism would be huge and it would need to be made from thick metal and become heavy.
RE: Railroad Bicycle
RE: Railroad Bicycle
It seems like what may be gained with less rolling resistance will be lost in the self-aligning or flange friction.
If an outrigger is used, some means of allowing for varying track width must be provided.
Ted
RE: Railroad Bicycle
Some considerations:
1) First and foremost, where will you ride it? Railroads don't take kindly to trespassing on their right-of-ways. Hard to go on a 60 mile rail-ride without access to at least 30 miles of rails.
2) Many railroads (particularly metros) run special profile wheels and rails. It's not a uniform standard.
3) Railwheels only have one flange, on the inboard side of the wheel. If you design something that has two flanges (one on each side), you won't be able to ride across at-grade street crossings, switches, frogs, etc.
4) By going to a steel wheel, you may reduce rolling resistance but you are likely adding weight, and in the worst possible type: rotational weight. Something with the strength, hardness, and cross section capable of cupping a rail is going to several times the weight of a nice road bike wheel.
5) Lots of rails are "jointed" every 30 feet or so. You've got a joint bar bolting two sections together, and they may or may not be well aligned (particularly if you've managed to find abandoned rail that is no longer maintained). With no form of suspension on the bike (not even a tire), you will feel every joint shaking you to your bones. You could add some suspension to make it tolerable, at the cost of weight and energy loss (which you are seeking to minimize).
I think it's a pretty terrible idea, but if you are committed you may want to look up information on railroad "speeders" which are tiny transport cars that people restore and take on rallys. Might be a decent source for wheels and whatnot.
RE: Railroad Bicycle
B.E.
The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor
RE: Railroad Bicycle
RE: Railroad Bicycle
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Railroad Bicycle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7h4OtFDnYE
RE: Railroad Bicycle
I did contemplate using possibly a thin rubber coating for traction, but all those things wont matter if they basic idea doesnt work.
I have been contemplating the whole balance issue.
and I did think about the micro adjustments a rider makes.
and I could see how at slow speeds it could be difficult, But if you could conquer that, and get up to speed fast enough could the centrifugal force would keep you up?
I did think about the bike with the fixed fork, and what would happen if you couldnt turn the bars. but im not completely sure this is the best example, since the wheenls arent "fixed" as well.
But I have seen other things that work in a similar fashion, such as roller blades, skis, and Im trying to think of others. (actually I also did contemplate using roller blade wheels in front instead of a bicycle style wheel.
(oh and the rims would be mainly aluminum, not steel)
On the other hand, As far as balance, what if the fork was fixed but the handle bars were not, so that you could lean the bike but not turn to get balance while the bike would will follow the rail?
(I'm a fairly experienced rider, have even done a little trick riding, so I know a little about balancing on 2 wheels(and sometimes one)
Now also if I make a rim that has 2 contact points at the edge of the rail, would that aid in keeping upright?
can anyone else think of other examples of similar things?
OR simple ways to carry out some tests?
(one idea I had was to simply take a regular bike, take the tires off and get a long tube of steel and try and ride on it)
Lastly i did find this:
http://www.emeraldempireadventures.com/wordpress/t...
I'm working on it!
RE: Railroad Bicycle
Once again, rail in the real world does not look like the rail in your picture. It wears.
RE: Railroad Bicycle
I'm working on it!
RE: Railroad Bicycle
Lots of really cool inventions have been made by people who were told it was impossible. Unfortunately, this is not one of those cases.
-handleman, CSWP (The new, easy test)
RE: Railroad Bicycle
Stories I have read about these are that the signal repair guys could cover large amounts of rail in a short time with them.
Red has a good point that unless you are an employee of the railroad, you will be trespassing as soon as you put this thing on the rail. The groups that use the little track scooters have to work for months with the railroads to get permission for just a couple hour ride. No railroad is going to want you on the track with their trains; will you be hooked into the Central Train Control system?
RE: Railroad Bicycle
RE: Railroad Bicycle
RE: Railroad Bicycle
Roughly speaking Crr best race tire 0.0025 Crr typical railway wheel 0.0010 to 0.0024
Now imagine what the Crr of an inverted V section on the rail is likely to be, I'd guess the upper end of the range for normal railway wheels.
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?
RE: Railroad Bicycle
RE: Railroad Bicycle
My thought / scheme / notion at the time was to make polyurethane wheels shaped sort of like the railcar wheel MintJulep shows, though narrower than the top of the rail and with less of a flange. I was thinking along the lines of making it very light and easy to throw off the tracks and into the bushes if I did hear a train coming. They only seemed to run maybe 3 times a week on that line, "seemed" being the operative word. I just wanted to get outdoor cycling leg exercise without dodging traffic and to get out into the countryside of those remote stretches of rail.
I was thinking of arch frames with a webbing seat suspended on bungee cords for shock absorption, a "recumbent bike" type pedaling position where you're actually sitting down hung below the frame.
RE: Railroad Bicycle
http://www.railriders.net/railbiking.html
RE: Railroad Bicycle
RE: Railroad Bicycle
Your idea of using a standard bicycle without tires on a long tube is the right one to test.
prex
http://www.xcalcs.com : Online engineering calculations
http://www.megamag.it : Magnetic brakes and launchers for fun rides
http://www.levitans.com : Air bearing pads
RE: Railroad Bicycle
http://www.fra.dot.gov/downloads/safety/cross_chp9...
RE: Railroad Bicycle
RE: Railroad Bicycle
RE: Railroad Bicycle
The scary thing about a picture like that, is that the sweet young thing sitting on the bike, is probabaly old enough to be your great grandmother.
B.E.
The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor
RE: Railroad Bicycle
RE: Railroad Bicycle
I was thinking about that.
I was looking at the picture of the Amphicar on a stretch of the river avon where I used to sail 40 years ago (ATT000999).
That picture does not look so old, or is it me?
B.E.
The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor
RE: Railroad Bicycle
There are many abandoned rail lines in the USA, some go thru very nice country, too. But they are likely in such poor shape that rail spacing is compromised, the roadbed choked with weeds and trees, etc.
But Moon161 hit the nail on the head, wind resistance is the dominant force to overcome in cycling. ASME magazine had an article on this about 20 years ago.
RE: Railroad Bicycle
A standard road bike has VERY low rolling resistance- you're on skinny little tires with 120 psi or so. If you eliminated ALL the rolling resistance, it wouldn't be that much different. And if you had to put a metal wheel 3" wide on there to say on the rail, the wind drag and weight would offset any gains in rolling efficiency.
RE: Railroad Bicycle
Rail lines never climb very steeply. Or descend.
Regards,
Mike
RE: Railroad Bicycle
RE: Railroad Bicycle
However I like this idea. I was/am more heavier rider/racer more of a classics/criterium rider and like the idea of hammering down a perfectly smooth track. Only problem is that the tracks are too busy where I live!
EIT
www.HowToEngineer.com