Not allowed to connect drain tile to storm sewer system.
Not allowed to connect drain tile to storm sewer system.
(OP)
I am working on a project in the City of Minneapolis and they have started to not allow connecting building foundation drain tile or parking lot subdrains to the City storm sewer system. Has anybody else out there come across this in other cities?
They say that if a project needs drain tile, it needs to be pumped to grade before it discharges into the storm sewer system.
They say that if a project needs drain tile, it needs to be pumped to grade before it discharges into the storm sewer system.





RE: Not allowed to connect drain tile to storm sewer system.
It overloads the sanitary systems
RE: Not allowed to connect drain tile to storm sewer system.
RE: Not allowed to connect drain tile to storm sewer system.
RE: Not allowed to connect drain tile to storm sewer system.
The OP is not talking sanitary here, he is talking storm - two diffrerent systems. Unless it is a combined system, you do not dump stormwater into a sanitary sewer, period.......................
The reason for pumping the storm water from the foundation drain to the storm drain (there is no objection from the city as to disharging to the storm from what I read here, only HOW you do it) is that if this is a gravity discharge system the water backs up in the storm sewer. It will charge the foundation drains and wall. Not so with a pumped system.
My objection to this is that when the power goes out, the charging will happen anyway. I think a gravity drain system with a backflow prevention valve is the best solution here, but what do I know...
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
http://mmcengineering.tripod.com
RE: Not allowed to connect drain tile to storm sewer system.
Requiring the water to be pumped to the surface seems unnecessary as there are other means to treat the sediment-laden water before it gets into the storm sewer system. If stormwater quality is the reason for restricting the connection, the OP should investigate alternate means of treating the draintile water before connection to the public system. The municipality should be open to this method of reasoning.
Nate the Great
www.ceieng.com
RE: Not allowed to connect drain tile to storm sewer system.
When I think of building "drain tile" and parking lot "subdrains", I think of measures put in place to control groundwater, not stormwater drainage. These would be affected by pump failure, but the flow will be fairly steady and not exhibit a peak flow during storm events.
RE: Not allowed to connect drain tile to storm sewer system.
jgailla hit on another very likely reason and an additional one is that the city does not want every tom, dick and harry digging up the streets and punching holes in the storm drain. that would be a permitting, traffic, and operation and maintenance nightmare.
RE: Not allowed to connect drain tile to storm sewer system.
What I originally posted was correct in that the City does not want to allow draintile connections directly to the STORM sewer system. Minneapolis does not have many combined sewers left, and this was not the issue. There apparent issue is that some buildings have been constructed where the draintile is in the groundwater table, so there is a constant flow into the storm pipes, and they don't have any way to bill the property owners for the constant use of the system.
I wanted to find out if any other cities also didn't allow this. Every other city that I have worked with allows the draintile connections to the storm sewer system.
RE: Not allowed to connect drain tile to storm sewer system.
If they built the foundation in the groundwater table, then they'll be pumping to surface drainage (and therefore back to storm sewer) just as much as if they tied directly to storm sewer. The only way this thing makes any sense is if its for the reasons msquared mentions above.
Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East - http://www.campbellcivil.com
RE: Not allowed to connect drain tile to storm sewer system.
RE: Not allowed to connect drain tile to storm sewer system.
RE: Not allowed to connect drain tile to storm sewer system.
RE: Not allowed to connect drain tile to storm sewer system.
If there is excess water, it will run off to the municipal storm sewer system.
In India, it becoming common to separate the gray water and black water in the individual systems in each unit and collect it is separate systems for different levels of treatment. Very often the gray water is used for external cleaning and watering vegetation. Apparently, it is done because of the dramatic population growth and the need to slow the need for new complete plants.
Dick
Engineer and international traveler interested in construction techniques, problems and proper design.
RE: Not allowed to connect drain tile to storm sewer system.
For building foundation drains however, I imagine they are mostly pumped anyway, with the foundation collection point likely lower than the available gravity line in most cases. Also I wouldn't want foundation drains tied directly to outside storm anyway, because if that storm drain surcharges it could push water into the foundation area, or at the very least prevent gravity drainage away from the foundation.
There is nothing wrong with just asking your contemporary down at the City what the reasoning behind this is either.
RE: Not allowed to connect drain tile to storm sewer system.
Richard A. Cornelius, P.E.
WWW.amlinereast.com
RE: Not allowed to connect drain tile to storm sewer system.
I live/work/design in a similiar climate to MINN, and can only imagine the freezing issues at all of these outlets, causing both unsafe (slippery) pedestrian conditions and numerous pump failures from backups/clogging in the pipes.