Masonry Wall for Metal building
Masonry Wall for Metal building
(OP)
Designing a foundation and cladding wall (12'-0" tall, 8" masonry) and the metal building types want it cantilevered, not providing a girt for the top.
Question I have, would it be better to do 1 row of rebar in the center, say #7, or two rows of #5? What about a single row out of the footing, and then transition to 2 rows?
Just trying to make it easy to build, im sure the contractor will mess up 2 rows out of the footing.
Question I have, would it be better to do 1 row of rebar in the center, say #7, or two rows of #5? What about a single row out of the footing, and then transition to 2 rows?
Just trying to make it easy to build, im sure the contractor will mess up 2 rows out of the footing.






RE: Masonry Wall for Metal building
RE: Masonry Wall for Metal building
How are you going to detail the top of wall closure with the roof and allow for substantial deflections that the metal building will provide?
I suggest reviewing " Concrete Masonry Walls for Metal Building Systems" published by ICC(International Code Council), NCMA (National Concrete Masonry Association) and MBMA (Mwtal Building Manufacturers Association). They have many good details for designing masonry walls for metal buildings. Many of there suggestions would translate to precast panel walls and concrete cip walls with appropriate detailing.
Jim H
RE: Masonry Wall for Metal building
Sort of pisses me off, the owner asked me to do a foundation design, everything he sent didnt have any wall design, then this show. I guess I need to discuss it with him, and let him know what I think of the wall design.
As stated before, the is no girt, and was wondering what you guys thought about the original question
RE: Masonry Wall for Metal building
Dik
RE: Masonry Wall for Metal building
Question I have, would it be better to do 1 row of rebar in the center, say #7, or two rows of #5? What about a single row out of the footing, and then transition to 2 rows?
RE: Masonry Wall for Metal building
RE: Masonry Wall for Metal building
RE: Masonry Wall for Metal building
Personally, I would place one bar at a tighter spacing...for example #5 @ 24" OC versus #7 @ 48" OC...before I would trust the contractor to get two bars in the right location with the right lap requirements.
This largely depends on how much you trust your contractors. In my area of the US, we get little QA for masonry and almost always have issues with bar placement and grouting.
PE, SE
Eastern United States
"If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death!"
~Code of Hammurabi
RE: Masonry Wall for Metal building
RE: Masonry Wall for Metal building
I’d detail your canti. CMU wall so that its inside face is a least 1' outside the outside edge of the steel frames, and resting on a continuous footing. Put flying buttresses every 8' on the outside to support the wall. Call it a cathedral to PEMB stupidity and in a six or seven hundred years it will be hailed as an Architectural Wonder and historic monument. At the top of your wall detail put a note saying “flashing from metal siding above, and out over the top of this CMU wall, by others; or by the PEMB supplier.” And, you want a sliding flashing joint at the top of your wall. Maybe they can make this a structural flashing to take the place of the girts they left out to make they system cheaper. Doesn’t sound like you should call them designers or engineers, they are just steel sellers. If they don’t like the architecturally pleasing flying buttresses, offer diagonal kickers to interior footings ever 8'. The added advantage of this wall system is when they start hanging piping and other mech. stuff on the walls, they don’t have to cut big chunks out of the flanges and web of the steel frame legs.
RE: Masonry Wall for Metal building
RE: Masonry Wall for Metal building
Dik
RE: Masonry Wall for Metal building
RE: Masonry Wall for Metal building
As for trusting the contractor, thats on the owner. My contract is with the owner to design a footing, that can be built. If the contractor cannot read plans and a tape, then he should not be building it. If he messes up, then its his dime (or owner) to correct. Im not a babysitter for them, just the engineer that will provide a build-able design.
Im not sure I need flying buttresses or diagonal kickers, the wall design is fine with the required steel. I understand the issue with Metal buildings, and owners get what they pay for. Luckily its only one end wall. The siding comes down over the outside of the wall.
As for plain masonry wall with a girt, for the 3rd time, there is no girt at the top of the wall.
Thanks Kylesito & cmbyrd77 for the advice, nice to get some feedback on my question.
RE: Masonry Wall for Metal building
Be sure you have adequate cover to confine and bond the bar to the grout. Also, be sure the dowels to the footing are hooked or otherwise fully developed into the foundation, or the wall won't actually cantilever. DO NOT ALLOW wet-setting of the dowels under any circumstance. Code requires that they be tied in place before concrete is placed (in which case, the number, spacing, and location are just details.) Wet set dowels NEVER fully develop the bar as required by code, primarily because they are placed after initial set, and they are typically not consolidated properly (since vibration to consolidate the concrete will cause the dowels to move.)
After reading more recent responses (I started typing on this last night), I'm not sure what the purpose of this wall is. You said foundation, but it is only one end and it will be covered with siding. I don't understand the intended function of the wall. Is it actually taking any lateral load from the building, or is it just self-supporting?
RE: Masonry Wall for Metal building
This is extra services. Get the owner to acknowledge this AFTER you have a solution to the problem (make the PEMB designer an offer he can't refuse), and get the change in writing if you want to proceed.
The wind brade to the mainframe is the only logical answer. The PEMB owner will just have to a special design for the mainframe rather than pull the worn out rabbit out of the hat to make more bucks.
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
http://mmcengineering.tripod.com
RE: Masonry Wall for Metal building
Thanks for all your comments. I got it from here.